NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

crazymess

brick wrote: »

From Newsletter report:-
"However, we remain in touch with the administrator and, if further information comes to light relating to the issues we have investigated, we will look into it."

Does the FSA report get published?
How would the public (esecially PMS savers) know what was, and wasn't, looked into?
What came to light that prompted FSA involvement in first place?
How would anyone know if they had (or were aware of) further material information that has potentially not been considered by investigators?
etc.

Does it really matter? The FSA has said the Directors did not do banking activity - thats all we need to know. Therefore they were operating within the rules of an Ind and Provident Society within NI.

Therefore that hopefully means - that the PMS fell into a crack in Northern Ireland legislation as there was no means of regulation available either under Direct Rule or Devolved Assembly - Government would be well aware that there would be a knock on effect when they increased the Gov Guarantee to £50,000 and savers would run for cover - ie transfer their monies into safer financial organisations. The PMS had no guarantee therefore were left as the FALL-GUYS.

Hopefully government will look sympathetically on our situation and bail us out.

Get writing folks to your MPs - pressure! pressure! rally! rally!

PCI hope you are using today's information and pressing for help.

silentpci

in the Christian Irishman,Autumn 1983 the advert. for the P M S . "Why not share in this success by becoming a shareholder in the PRESBYTERIAN MUTUIAL SOCIETY-it's in the Church's interest and yours!"

crazymess

silentpci wrote: »

in the Christian Irishman,Autumn 1983 the advert. for the P M S . "Why not share in this success by becoming a shareholder in the PRESBYTERIAN MUTUIAL SOCIETY-it's in the Church's interest and yours!"

Thank you and welcome SILENTPCI - just googled the Christian Irishman - AN OFFICIAL PUBLICATION OF THE BOARD OF MISSION OF THE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN IRELAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) There are many other links between the Board of Mission and the PMS - I remember seeing them!!!!

Wonder what Dr. Rev Donald Watts thinks of this now -


Sickasaparrot - thats another one for your records!!

goodbyepci

crazymess wrote: »

There are many other links between the Board of Mission and the PMS - I remember seeing them!!!!


There was a direct link from the PCI Board of Mission website to the PMS website until 18th November when it was removed.

crazymess

So moving on a little - so if we were an IND and Prov Society and operating legally - they who was looking after us? We know that the PCI promoted us to save our money in the PMS - but what authority was looking after our welfare?

[SIZE=+2]Explanatory Memorandum to Industrial And Provident Societies (Northern Ireland) Order 2006 [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]SI 2006 No. 314 (N.I. 3)[/SIZE]
© Crown Copyright 2006

Explanatory Memorandum to Northern Ireland Orders in Council are subject to Crown Copyright protection. They may be reproduced free of charge provided that they are reproduced accurately and that the source and copyright status of the material is made evident to users. It should be noted that the right to reproduce the text of the Explanatory Memorandum does not extend to the Queen's Printer imprints which should be removed from any copies of the Explanatory Memorandum which are issued or made available to the public. This includes reproduction of the Memorandum on the internet and on intranet sites. The Royal Arms may be reproduced only where they are an integral part of the original document. The text of this internet version of the Explanatory Memorandum which is published by the Queen's Printer of Acts of Parliament has been prepared to reflect the text in printed form and as published by The Stationery Office Limited as Industrial And Provident Societies (Northern Ireland) Order 2006 , ISBN 0337963630 . The print version may be purchased by clicking here. Braille copies of the Explanatory Memorandum can also be purchased at the same price as the print edition by contacting TSO Customer Services on 0870 600 5522 or e-mail: [EMAIL="customer.services@tso.co.uk"]customer.services@tso.co.uk.[/EMAIL]

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This Explanatory Memorandum refers to the Industrial and Provident Societies (Northern Ireland) Order (NI 3).

INDUSTRIAL AND PROVIDENT SOCIETIES (NORTHERN IRELAND) ORDER 2006

2006 No. 314 (N.I. 3)

______________________
EXPLANATORY MEMORANDUM

INTRODUCTION


1. The above Order is being made under the Northern Ireland Act 2000 and is subject to affirmative resolution


2. This Explanatory Memorandum has been prepared by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment ("the Department") in order to assist the reader in understanding the Order. It does not form part of the Order.


BACKGROUND AND POLICY OBJECTIVES


3. The Order is intended to bring the legislation governing Industrial and Provident Societies in Northern Ireland into line with the equivalent legislation in Great Britain - in particular, the Co-Operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2003.


4. The Industrial and Provident Societies (Northern Ireland) Order will form part of the Department's strategy to help Industrial and Provident Societies (I&P Societies) in Northern Ireland to reach their full potential, by removing legal, regulatory and policy barriers that may act as obstacles to their growth and development. The aim is to create a supportive and enabling framework, ensuring that the needs of I&P Societies' members are met, at the same time protecting their interests. By modernising key policy areas, the Department intends to create a regulatory environment which will encourage I&P Societies to maximise their contribution to social and economic development in Northern Ireland.


5. The main purpose of the Order is to achieve the above mentioned objectives by creating parity between I&P Societies legislation in Northern Ireland and Great Britain. I&P Societies in GB are regulated by comparatively recent legislation, most notably the Co-Operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2003. In order to avoid I&P Societies in Northern Ireland being left behind GB, this draft Order applies many of the provisions of the recent GB legislation to NI legislation, amending the appropriate sections of the Industrial and Provident Societies Act (Northern Ireland)1969 and inserting new provisions where necessary.


CONSULTATION


6. A consultation paper was issued in May 2004, with subsequent focus groups being held during June and July 2004. Consultees included all of the major I&P Societies in Northern Ireland, as well as leaders of various I&P representative bodies. Other government departments in Northern Ireland were also consulted, as were the Financial Services Authority and HM Treasury. A further consultation paper, including the draft Order in Council, was issued in May 2005. No issues were identified by these consultations.


OPTIONS CONSIDERED


7. Options were considered in relation to each proposal: registration of Societies; share capital; protection of societies; protection of third parties; accounting and audit matters, and insolvency arrangements. In each case, options included maintaining the current position and introducing provisions to bring the regulation of Industrial and Provident Societies in Northern Ireland into line with the parallel regulatory regime in Great Britain. The provisions detailed below, under 'Main Elements of the Order', represent the Department's preferred options.


FINANCIAL EFFECTS OF THE ORDER


8. The Department has considered the potential financial effects of the Order, and has concluded that there will be no financial effects on the I&P sector as a result of the proposals contained therein.


HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES


9. The provisions of the Order are compatible with the Convention on Human Rights.


EQUALITY IMPACT ASSESSMENT


10. A screening exercise has been carried out by the Department into the Equality impact of the proposed Order. This exercise has concluded that a full Equality Impact Assessment is unnecessary.


SUMMARY OF THE REGULATORY APPRAISAL


11. A screening exercise has been carried out by the Department into the regulatory impact of the proposed Order. This exercise has concluded that a full Regulatory Impact Assessment is unnecessary.


MAIN ELEMENTS OF THE ORDER


12. The Order consists of 11 Articles and 1 Schedule. Articles 1 and 2 are introductory. Articles 3 to 7 make amendments to The Industrial and Provident Societies Act (Northern Ireland) 1969 (the "principal Act"). Articles 8 to 10 make various provisions relating to areas of I&P regulation under the Co-Operatives and Community Benefit Societies Act 2003 which the Department wishes to apply to regulation of I&P Societies in Northern Ireland. Article 11 makes the necessary repeals to give effect to the provisions contained in Articles 3 to 10.


COMMENTARY ON ARTICLES


13. A summary of each article follows:


Article 3 places requirements on bodies wishing to register as Community Benefit Societies.


Article 4 defines the capacity of an I&P Society and the power of its committee to bind it.


Article 5 deals with the status of purported deeds, contracts and obligations entered into by I&P Societies.


Article 6 further clarifies the procedures for execution of deeds and other documents.


Article 7 makes provision for conversion into, or transfer of engagements to, a limited company by an I&P Society.


Article 8 applies the Company Directors Disqualification (Northern Ireland) Order 2002 to societies registered under the principal Act.


Article 9 enables the Department to restrict a society from using its assets for purpose other than that which is of benefit to the community, or other uses as may be considered appropriate under the rules and ethos of that particular society.


Article 10 enables the Department to make changes to I&P law to bring it into line with the relevant sections of company law, as and when this becomes necessary for the good governance of I&P societies. This article also sets out in detail the areas of I&P law, as contained in the principal Act, which are to be exempted from this measure.


Article 11 repeals the statutory provisions listed in the Schedule.


Article 11 - Repeals


Article 11 repeals the sections of the principal Act as listed in the schedule.


The Schedule repeals:


1. The Industrial and Provident Societies (Northern Ireland) Act 1969 (c.24) - in section 3 the words "with a common seal and with"; in section 5(6) the words "engraven with legible characters on its seal and"; section 5(7)(a) in its entirety.


2. The Companies Consolidation (Consequential Provisions) (Northern Ireland) Order 1986 (NI 9)-


In Part I of Schedule 1, the entry relating to section 1(2) of the Industrial and Provident Societies Act (Northern Ireland) 1969 (c. 24).


COMMENCEMENT


Articles 1 and 2 of the Order shall come into operation on the 14th day of March 2006.

• The remaining provisions of the Order shall come into operation on such day or days as the Department may by Order appoint.

To the OrderOther Explanatory Memorandum | Home | Her Majesty's Stationery Office[SIZE=-1]We welcome your comments on this site[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]© Crown copyright 2006[/SIZE]Prepared: 1 March 2006

Doesn't it say "to look after the Members interests"!! Is there anything in this legal minefield? Is Article 9 relevant?

Nomad25

but what authority was looking after our welfare?

Don't want appear flippant - but God knows! and apparently he/she is the only authority looking after you.

goodbyepci

Community benefit societies: power to restrict use of assets
9. —(1) The Department may by regulations make provision for enabling any community benefit society, or any community benefit society of a prescribed kind, to ensure that—

(a) assets of the society of a prescribed kind, (b) assets of the society specified by it in accordance with the regulations, or (c) all of the society's assets,

cannot be used or dealt with except in a case mentioned in paragraph (2).

(2) The cases are—

(a) where the use or dealing is, directly or indirectly, for a purpose that is for the benefit of the community and is of a prescribed kind or, if no kinds of purpose are prescribed under this sub-paragraph, for any purpose that is for the benefit of the community; or (b) where the circumstances are such as may be prescribed.

(3) Where under the regulations a society has ensured as mentioned in paragraph (1) as respects any of its assets, the assets concerned shall be "dedicated assets" for the purposes of this Article.

(4) Regulations under this Article may, in particular—

(a) provide for the procedure by which a society may ensure as mentioned in paragraph (1); (b) provide for such of a society's registered rules as are of a prescribed kind to be unalterable, or for them to be alterable only in prescribed circumstances or in circumstances specified in rules of a prescribed kind; (c) provide that, in any circumstances prescribed under paragraph (2)(b), dedicated assets shall be dealt with in a prescribed way; (d) make provision for ensuring that any society, company or other person to whom any dedicated assets are transferred in prescribed circumstances cannot use or deal with those assets except in a case mentioned in paragraph (2); (e) provide for members of a society who lose property rights as a result of the society's ensuring as mentioned in paragraph (1) to be compensated for that loss (whether by payment of a prescribed amount or of an amount determined in a prescribed way or otherwise), subject to such exceptions as may be prescribed; (f) provide for the enforcement of provisions designed to ensure as mentioned in paragraph (1); (g) make provision for the carrying out of investigations by persons appointed by a prescribed person; (h) confer power on a prescribed person to require persons of a prescribed description to provide him with information in order to enable or assist him to perform any of his functions under the regulations; (i) provide for restrictions on the use and disclosure of information obtained by any person in the performance of any function under the regulations.

(5) Regulations under this Article may—

(a) impose criminal liability; (b) confer functions on a prescribed person; (c) confer jurisdiction on any court; (d) authorise a prescribed person to make rules, binding on persons of a prescribed description, for the purpose of enabling or assisting him to perform any of his functions under the regulations; (e) make provision as to the making, publication and enforcement of such rules; (f) provide for a prescribed person to charge fees sufficient to meet the costs of performing any of his functions under the regulations; (g) modify, exclude or apply (with or without modifications) any statutory provision or rule of law; (h) contain such incidental, consequential and supplemental provision as the Department considers appropriate.

(6) Regulations under this Article may not create any new criminal offence punishable with imprisonment for more than seven years.

(7) No regulations may be made under this Article unless a draft of the regulations has been laid before and approved by a resolution of the Assembly.

(8) In this Article—

"community benefit society" means a society registered (or deemed to be registered) under the principal Act which fulfils the condition in section 1(2)(b) of that Act;

"prescribed" means prescribed by regulations under this Article;

"registered rules" has the same meaning as in the principal Act. Can anyone make any sense of it?

fivealive_2

silentpci wrote: »

in the Christian Irishman,Autumn 1983 the advert. for the P M S . "Why not share in this success by becoming a shareholder in the PRESBYTERIAN MUTUIAL SOCIETY-it's in the Church's interest and yours!"

Frame that and keep it in a safe place.:T

Welcome to the forum. :wave:

fivealive_2

jon_groovy wrote: »

CF, should i worry about my money.......answer NO
CF, is the PMS in anykind of trouble......answer NO
CF, is my money safe......answer NO

thanks for not lying to me

This person was not a director and to my understanding has no legal liability whatsoever.

Whatnow?_3

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/PMS-savers-urged-to-come.5162785.jp

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/PMS-savers-urged-to-come.5162785.jp