NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

crazymess

Why are so many people viewing this thread yet don't make any comments or posts. Are you watching the thread as a genuine saver or for another reason.

Remember if you are a Saver - we are all in this together.

There seems to be a lot of work going on in the background, by various lobby groups, some in Londonderry, Antrim, Newry, Lisburn etc -

Surely its time to get together?

Staying quiet is not going to return your savings. You all worked hard to earn your savings and it seems you will now have to put a little more effort in to getting them returned.

Letters have been written to Government officials both in Westminister and Stormont, FSA, PCI, Arthur Boyd and Co - what impact has it had really had? What further information have you about your savings - do you really know if you will have them returned or not?

I think it is time to stop shying away and rally for a return of our savings - we need Government, DETI and PCI to see the human side of this devastating situation -

Some lobby groups are working on a meeting of the six counties at this stage in order to organise a rally.

Please PM me if you are willing to support a rally (if you don't want to be recognised - you can wear a mask!).

readyforaction

Goodbyepci - Yes all those who put their money into PMS should be entitled to know the details of the investments.

If the plight of PMS members is not on agenda for General Assembly, get phoning into Church House. There is influence in numbers – Try Stephen Lynas – Main switchboard 028 90 322284. No point going to Donald Watts.

Yes, jongroovy, I knew someone would pick up the fact that PCI jumped on the back of someone else’s petition – that was a good TACTICAL manoeuvre on PCI’s part?

Warmhands.coldheart – No doubt, suing the directors is in someone’s mind – hopefully someone who knows legally how to go about it.

Crazymess – Let’s examine this – if you were running a business and your business went into administration, who would get paid out first? The creditors would and that would be it.

PMS was run like a business – so the same rules apply. Creditors get paid out first. LET’S EXAMINE A FEW TACTICS.

Most PMS victims are fed-up with people beating round the bush. Here are a few points:

Why did PMS notify PCI at least 2 weeks before everyone else if they were not linked to PMS? Was this good-hearted of PMS? No this was a tactical move so that PCI could remove themselves from the catastrophe. TACTICAL

That gave the allegedly unassociated PCI time to call in the legal teams and get the ‘story’ straight to tell the gullible people who invested their money in PCI? The problem is, that by washing their hands off it initially gave every other institution the opportunity to do exactly the same thing?

PCI effectively demonstrated a lack of morals to honest hardworking people whom, you will ,on average, find were devoted Presbyterians who feel like foolish Presbyterians now. Please don’t feel foolish – take heart from the fact that even accountants were deceived, so what chance did the average Joe Public have (I mean that respectfully)?

Directors
Mark Orr was promoted into Sidlow McFarland’s position because of his rhetoric and his knowledge of the legalities attached. Was that a moral judgement? No, that was a tactical judgement? TACTICAL

Alan Hewitt resigned on 30th September 2008. He had association with L’Estrange and Brett who are among the professional advisors. I wonder what role L’Estrange and Brett played in the affairs of the PMS pre-administration?
Could there have been rumblings as far back as September that all was not well? Was this resignation made on moral grounds or tactical grounds? TACTICAL

Mr D.H.Colin Ferguson – evidence that many people from the middle of the summer, were told exactly the same thing by CF that all was well and particularly in the month of October when the massive run began. Was this moral or ethical? Was this a tactical move not to cause alarm? TACTICAL

Loan Note Holder - Please do not worry about the morality of voting mutually. That is yet another TACTIC of Church House – to make you feel guilty that you are not being a true Christian and thinking of your mutual family.

PMS savers believed that they were part of the mutual family of the Presbyterian Church. Look what happened there.
It’s every man for himself – Vote tactically.

PMS savers need JUSTICE. Loan Note holders – is there justice in losing your life savings?

NEITHER PCI NOR PMS HAD MORALS WHEN IT CAME TO THE SHARE HOLDERS OR LOAN NOTE HOLDERS?

PCI want an easy way out. They have demonstrated that they are good at tactics. It is time tactics were employed by the savers.

LOAN NOTE HOLDERS – YOU MUST VOTE TO RETAIN THE RIGHTS OF CREDITORS TO BE PAID OUT FIRST.

LET THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN DUCKING AND DIVING WITH THEIR TACTICAL MOVES RESCUE THE SHARE HOLDERS?

amadan22

i put my savings with pms as savings.. nothing else... not investment, not speculatlive. yes, it was strange to receive a loan certificate and a share thing. BUT i'm not in any way financialy astute! i'm pretty sure this is the same for at least 95% of SAVERS!!!! i know that ignorance is no excuse, but, I WAS SAVING, NOT INVESTING OR SPECULATING!!!!! we were, maybe, making an extra 0.5 to 1%(maybe even a little more) on our savings and, at the same time, helping congregations! i would like one of you to say "yes, i was speculating or investing" to put your hands up! i'm only a meagre SAVER!!!! at the begining we were all savers.

goodbyepci

readyforaction wrote: »

LOAN NOTE HOLDERS – YOU MUST VOTE TO RETAIN THE RIGHTS OF CREDITORS TO BE PAID OUT FIRST.

LET THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN DUCKING AND DIVING WITH THEIR TACTICAL MOVES RESCUE THE SHARE HOLDERS?

readyforaction

Thanks for an excellent and eye opening summary of the TACTICS of PMS and PCI.



:mad:

amadan22

b*gger tactics. i'm a saver, was always a saver! all monies in my eyes are savings! i have substantially more than the share threshold involved! from day 1 we were encouraged to SAVE with the pms! THE SHARES DO NOT DISAPPEAR!!!!!!!!!!!! i concider this fundamental!!!!

freddiemae

jon_groovy wrote: »

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Watchdog-39set-to-clear-PMS39.5156939.jp

I don't see this as good news. It looks more like a "well no-one is technically to blame so hard luck" hand washing exercise.

I hope I am wrong but it looks as if the buck is not stopping anywhere near Gordon Brown and the Treasury.

crazymess

freddiemae wrote: »

I don't see this as good news. It looks more like a "well no-one is technically to blame so hard luck" hand washing exercise.

I hope I am wrong but it looks as if the buck is not stopping anywhere near Gordon Brown and the Treasury.

Surely - when the Ind and Prov Societies Act was set up - they were set up under DIRECT RULE - and no provision was made by the GOVERNMENT for REGULATION OF SAME in NORTHERN IRELAND. They must have forgotten and as I have said before - when all the movement of money around all the banks (because OF people wanting to be in banks with Financial Guarantees) that left the like of PMS VULNERABLE - the GOVERNMENT DIDN't think of this when they increased the threshold to £50k - FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS NATURALLY WERE GOING TO SUFFER BECAUSE OF THIS.

We have now broken this down to two issues:

PCI for promoting us to save in the PMS (perhaps wrong financial advice)

HM Government not having the correct provision in place to allow us to be REGULATED HERE IN NI

This rally is now more important than ever.

THOSE WHO SHOUT LOUDEST GET PAID FIRST!!

Nomad25

We have now broken this down to two issues:

I would say 3, what about the actions of the PMS directors?

They have insurance which is specifically supposed to cover these situations [if proved]- go after them for compensation.

Maybe they didn't take the correct policies out, in the same way as they didn't join the FSCS, because they preferred doing their own thing!

Whichever way they should be made to sweat, I bet they are all living 'high on the hoof' now - no financial hardship for them.

portstewart

Where the blame lies...

If FSA eventually concludes that PMS did not act as a bank surely there is then little possibility of PCI ever being held to account for promoting the merits of PMS as a suitable risk free investment.

It becomes even more important to focus on the actions of the Directors....and what remedies are available if they are found to have failed in their duties.

It will take more than a protest march but then again ever little helps

Nomad25

Another thought - Easter [Good Friday, Sunday and Monday] is a busy time for church attendance and subsequently you should be able to reach a wider audience. Some of you PMSsavers and PCI folk on here might like to be pro-active and start rallying a group together. Don't miss an ideal opportunity.

Why not formulate a simple fact sheet, post it on here for people to print off and hand out to their fellow parishioners. Keep to the facts, give contact numbers for lobbying and for further info.

Maybe one or two names/tel no's that people can call if no internet access.

I realise this will be a hell of a job, but you are spending so much of your time picking over the bones and going round in circles at the moment to no avail [sorry to be so blunt].

This would be a constructive exercise and at least you'd feel you were making affirmative actions and it might give you exposure to savers that aren't MSE people.

If you can pull enough people together, they could all contribute a small amount to financing legal action.