Can't find water meter?

Jesthar

Cardew wrote: »

Jesthar,
I am sorry but I would have to disagree with you about 46 cubic metres being a huge consumption. In fact it is well below average!
OK, let me rephrase that - In my opinion it is a HUGE volume of water to use in just 4 months. I'm single, live alone, and only used 20m3 over the course of the entire last year, and I do love a good long soak in the bath!

There are masses of data available on the web from all the water companies to show that the average UK consumption is around 160 litres per person per day - so 58.4 cubic metres per person per year.
Don't need the web, I work for a major water company - we tend to keep such figures to hand for some strange reason.

For 3 people that is approx 175 cubic metres per year. So for 4 months the average would be 58.4 cubic metres - and workinmummy has only received an estimate for 46 cubic metres.
Which would be an accurate "4 months, 3 people" estimated bill for her water company - I looked up their current average use figures and did the calculation.

Just a couple of other points.

They do not assume that "that what goes in must come out" i.e. all supplied water will return to the drain. They have to make an allowance of 10% for evaporation, watering garden etc. So you pay sewerage charges on 90% of the supplied water. Companies calculate this in different ways.
OK, so I over-simplified this bit a lot because of the varition of methods you mention. Maybe I should say 'what goes in probably comes out' instead. But then we hit the fun and games of surface water and roof drainage, too...

The normal method is to take the sewerage charge figure approved by ofwat and reduce it by 10%. e.g. ofwat approve a figure of 80p/cu mtr, so you pay 72p on all water. So for 100 cubic metres supplied water you pay £72.

or

They charge 80p on 90% of the water used so on 100 litres you pay for 90 @ 80p = £72
My company uses the water meter reading as the value for both water and waste volume charges, but separates the two and charges a much lower rate for sewerage. Not sure how UU do it.

If you can make a case that less than 90% goes down your sewer you can get the sewerage charge reduced.

As far as the 'average useage' figures go, they may be used for calculating estimated bills, but any truly 'average household' should really be under 'average use' by a significant margin, simply because high useage individuals skew the distribution and averages. You are never going to get a normal standard distribution anyway, as it is very difficult to use less than a certain amount of water.

On the other hand, it is VERY easy to use a lot MORE water than normal. The reasons for this are myriad, and cover everything from heavy garden watering to swimming pools, to cultural water useage patterns, to customer side leakage, to more occupants living in a house than have been officially declared, etc. - and those are just a few reasons; there are many more. Doesn't sound like a huge deal, I know, but it really does make a huge difference to the 'average' consumption figures. Which is why I would be very surprised to find any normal family running up a truly 'average use' bill.

Hope that clarifies a few things.

~Jes

PasturesNew

In my last house the water meter was outside in the street. On the pavement there were 3 metal covers, one of them was mine. No labelling, the unique identifier is the actual meter number ... and it's about 3-4' below ground level, so to read it I'd have had to open up the metal cover, have a long pokey stick with a hook on to pull up a 4" thick disc of polystyrene, then underneath that would have been the meter (I never looked). I was paying under £12/month for water (South West Water - priciest company around and they increased a lot more than others each year)

I moved here into a studio flatlet, it was on a rateable value and I was paying £40/month. A neighbour said if I phoned up and asked for a meter they'd come and see and realise they couldn't fit one (shared water supply) and would then reduce my bill to a usage based on some questions they would ask (do you live alone, do you have a washing machine, do you have a garden, etc). Well, the man turned up and - surprise, surprise - he was able to fit a meter immediately. He actually fitted it inline under the sink. I've had it installed 5 months now and used 10 units.

So I use 2 cubic metres (2 units) per month.

Cardew

Jesthar wrote: »

Hope that clarifies a few things.

~Jes

workinmummy complained that the estimate was "extortionate" and asked "does anyone know what they say the average consumption is"

You apparently agreed; stating that "46 cubic meters is a HUGE volume for just four months"

The intent of my post was to clarify matters for other readers of this post - including workinmummy. I am aware you personally have access to the figures as you did state you worked for a water company ; which makes it difficult to understand the misinformation given.

It would be quite reasonable for the OP to dispute the average figure estimate on the strength of a post from a water company employee; only to find that United Utilities estimate is indeed a conservative estimate.

By definition an average figure is the mean consumption of high users and low users. You obviously have low consumption. I, remarkably it would appear?, have average consumption. Indeed ofwat produce figures for domestic consumption by quartile - but I am sure you are aware of that information.

Jesthar

Cardew wrote: »

workinmummy complained that the estimate was "extortionate" and asked "does anyone know what they say the average consumption is"

You apparently agreed; stating that "46 cubic meters is a HUGE volume for just four months" I also then went on to say that it WAS accurate for a UU estimated bill based on UU average consumption figures. Still, added extra clarification just to be on the safe side, so thanks for the heads up that you found it confusing.

The intent of my post was to clarify matters for other readers of this post - including workinmummy. I am aware you personally have access to the figures as you did state you worked for a water company ; which makes it difficult to understand the misinformation given. My apologies if you thought it was misleading, that was not my intent. However, in the experience of the water industry, there IS a significant difference between the official average useage figures and what we would actually expect an 'average' family to use, simply because those private individuals with high useage figures always skew the official values upwards.

It would be quite reasonable for the OP to dispute the average figure estimate on the strength of a post from a water company employee; only to find that United Utilities estimate is indeed a conservative estimate. Not a conservative estimate at all - it's bang on the money for UU average figures. These vary by company, sometimes quite drastically, so I used the ones specific for her area. The average consumption figures for UU are actually lower than the national averages.

By definition an average figure is the mean consumption of high users and low users. Yes, but statistically speaking this is not a standard distribution pattern, and is further skewed by high consumption users, as I tried to explain. You obviously have low consumption. I, remarkably it would appear?, have average consumption. Indeed ofwat produce figures for domestic consumption by quartile - but I am sure you are aware of that information.

Look, I'm not going to get into an argument over this. I've tried to explain WHY the OFWAT water industry average consumption figures will always be higher than what we would actually think of as 'average' useage; however if you or anyone else think this is going to be too confusing for people to understand and is therefore unhelpful, please post and tell me and I'll remove my posts, as the last thing I want to do it cause problems for people. Thanks!

Yes, I do have low consumption figures. Some of this is going to be down to my lifestyle, such as not having kids means my washing machine only goes on once per week - and I chose a water efficient model when I bought it, and try to only do full loads. I also have a Save-a-flush in my toilet cistern, don't leave taps running unnecessarily, and water my (sizeable) garden and wash my car with watering cans and buckets, not a hosepipe. To my shame, I don't have a water butt yet, and my outside tap was leaking for much of the summer because I was too lazy to do something about it. I also love a good soak in the bath, but I have had more showers this year instead. None of these things are particularly onerous and can make a large difference to your water consumption levels. There are still areas I could make more savings, but if the truth be told, I'm too darn lazy!

For the record, I don't do these things because I'm an indoctrinated water company employee - we like it when you use water, because you have to pay us for it! I do them because, in true MSE fashion, I like saving money where I can.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, hopefully I make more sense now.

~Jes

deanos

I dont know the layout or age of your property (can you explain in more detail ?) but there could be another water meter chamber , sometimes there will be 1 supply for 2 propertys and it will have a stop tap just before it splits (they use meter chambers as stop taps as they are all standard now) and then the meter will be further along after its split, or you may have a internal meter.

The meter company should have a meter location on there system

workinmummy

Deanos,

My house is in a row of 12 mews/ town houses. It is about 4 years old (we are the second owners). It is 3 stories high, with 2 bathroom and cloakroom down stairs. This doesn't mean that the 3 of us use more water than we would in a one bathroom house. Showers are taken daily and the bath is reserved for the little one maybe once a week, if we can't tempt him with a shower. We do not have a dish washer, dished washed in sink, twice a day.
washing machine goes on maybe 4 times a week, 5 at most usually on a quick 30 min wash. We don't use a hose pipe at all.

I will try to explain the set up of the water meters on the row. which are on the public footpath at the bottom of the drives.

* ** ** ?* ** ** *

One water meter then two together along the row, then one on its own at the other end, the ? denotes where mine should be. As i said before this is filled in with tarmac.

I have someone coming out on 5th dec to show me where the meter is, hope he can sort it, ( have checked under the sink and is not there) have even checked the serial numbers on the nearest meters and non of them match the one on my bill. Also not sure how the bill will be sorted as the meter reading when i moved in was estimated by United utilities as i couldn't give an opening reading and the previous owner didn't give an end reading.

Why does everything turn into such a saga?

Thanks for everyones input Claire

deanos

It could well have been burried when they laid the tarmac, it happens quite a lot on new builds

TighterThanTwoCoatsOfPain

just to question the "average amount a person uses a day".... surely this is the "total per day" and not the amount one would use at home making the comment about it not being much usage a little flawed? Not a dig in the slightest, just how i interpreted the numbers.

Just some other places to try...

My folks have an enclosed plastic box in the garage (miles away from any internal water source!)

Mine is the size of a baked bean tin (ish!) and brown and lives under the utility room sink (almost out of sight, and totally un-servicable without taking kitchen apart!). Its connected to wires which somehow run to a little unit by the front door which the water guys can swipe. Quite cool in a geeky way! lol

workinmummy

Update for me.

A nice man from Siemens came out on Friday. He could also see were the meter should be, but it wasn't there. Is going to get someone to come out and put a meter in, will then read it after a month and use that to back date the water to November 2007. Apparently.

Headsabovewater

workinmummy
Glad its sorted for you at last.
The water company will gain your ADC (Average Daily Consomption) by noting the meter reading when the meter is installed then taking a reading a few weeks later and dividing the amount of water used by the amount of days between readings.
You will then be re billed over the period that the meter has been missing or to the date the last actual reading on your account.