Sale Agreement

bertieandduffy

Thanks Suki for putting that person right...

Absolutely right Puppy Farms dont have signs on doors otherwise they would not have a chance in hell of selling their pups...

Even the most careful people who are looking to buy a puppy get duped we are only human...

I am simply just asking a question on here..definately did not expect to be judged...and remember I am doing something about it like going through the courts...have you ever done anything to stop puppy farm breeding rather than cast an opinion ????? I doubt not....

foreign_correspondent

thanks for posting Bertieandduffy - what a sad story but I hpe the pup has a long and happy life with you.

Lets hope that this will provide a useful illustration of how these people operate and how they pull the wool over buyers eyes - of course they put a good front up to keep the customers rolling in. Ultimately its the dogs that suffer most, like this poor pup with his health problems.

I worry for the parents of this pup, and the others they will doubtless be churning out - I would contact your local CAB and maybe the RSPCA if you have welfare concerns. Maybe contact the local rag as well to warn others about these shady operators.

Just remember, seeing a pup in someones front room does not guarantee it has not been born and raised in a filthy cramped little shed out the back, or even elsewhere. They are in this business to make money and they want to optimise the number of sales they make and will tell you whatever you want to hear to get your money.

foreign_correspondent

aron - I would not buy a pup from a breeder ever - because although there are doubtless good breeders I think it is very very hard for a layman to identify which these are, especially when some of the 'top' crufts winning, Kennel Club registered breeders are not averse to breeding sick dogs knowingly.

I think the OP has undoubtedly been unfortunate here, but I would not, as an individual presume to be able to ever say 100% that a breeder has integrity, compassion for their dogs and totally ethical practice. Many sensible, intelligent people fall for con tricks, and this is the territory these breeders occupy.

I also know someone who breeds internationally renowned examples of their breed and reularly wins best of breed at crufts - but his breeding dogs are kept in a shed 24-7 and have no quality of life.

For these reasons, personally I would never buy a pup, I would always rescue - and although I would chose to rescue an adult dog everytime, there are plenty of pups in rescue just waiting for homes.

By going to a reputable rescue instead of a breeder you can be 100% sure you are not funding puppy farming.

Doogiesmum

aron wrote: »

Which basically means you doesn't it? You bought from them. Why do you think this sort of thing is so common? It's because they see people like you coming unfortunately. All of the things you claim they did wrong ie fake pedigree, health issues etc are things YOU should have checked out before you bought the puppy.

It isn't all down to the seller to do all the work, you as the paying customer have a responsibility as well, you can't blame it all on them when it goes wrong & it's no good saying that you made a mistake - this is a living, breathing animal that will be a life time committment not a new handbag & it's up to you as the customer to ensure the breeder can back up thier credentials BEFORE you buy the puppy.

If you had done your homework and researched the background of the breeder you soon would have found out if they were lying to you. It's no good complaining about a practice that you yourself have supported by buying the puppy.

If people stopped buying puppies from dubious sources then maybe they would stop selling them, it only continues because people still insist on buying from them without thoroughly researching the background of the breeder. You don't have to buy puppies instantly on viewing them, you aren't under any obligation & you have ample opportunity to research the background of these people before making a decision. My breeder cave me a copy of the pedigree before my dog was even born.

Name the breeder on here & i bet i can find something within seconds that makes it obvious they were farming. OK, so puppy farmers don't have a sign on the door, but they do have plenty of other signs that give the game away. When you are talking about a living animal there's no excuse for not double & trebble checking everything the breeder tells you before making a decision.

You wouldn't buy a brand new top of the range car without making sure the log book was genuine, why should a pedigree certificate be any different if you are paying for the Rolls Royce of dogs?

I just don't understand why anyone would buy a puppy from a reputable breeder without at least looking into thier background as a breeder. A reputable breeder would have given a copy of the pedigree before you even bought from them - then you would have found out if it was fake before you bought the puppy & could have backed out.

Sorry if i sound like a don't have much sympathy but that's because i dont. You can't lump all the blame for farming squarely on the puppy farmers themselves when it's every day people like you who are satisfying the demand for this trade in the first place. You have to take at least some of the responsibility yourself.

What complete rubbish! Puppy farmers should take ALL of the blame, fairly and squarely. What an idiotic stance.

They take the blame for the cruel, squalid and heartless conditions that they subject their dogs to. The responsibility for their animals and any that they sell is theirs alone.

I'm sure you've made bad decisions in the past but we all learn from experience, your comments here are unfair, we've all been naive and trusting in our time. Of course the puppy farmer takes all the blame, they have a duty to behave as honourably as the buyer.

foreign_correspondent

aron wrote: »

I think you might be wrong about that actually, unless you didn't know that one of the most well know rescue centres takes on ex brooding b!tches from Welsh puppy farms on a regular basis to rehome as 'Rescue' pets?


By going to a reputable rescue instead of a breeder you cannot be 100% sure you are not funding puppy farming because one of the most reputable rescue centres is doing exactly that.

What do you think happens when the said rescue centre takes a dog from one of these farms to rehabilitate? What message do you think it gives the puppy farmer? Do you think the farm has second thoughts about how awful it was breeding an underage b!tch to the point of collapse, or do you think they just do it to another one knowing full well they can dump that one on the rescue centre as well when it's knackered?

Google Many Tears Rescue & you might see how flawed your ideology is regarding your assumption that you can be 100% sure that you are not funding puppy farming by buying a rescue dog. Have a look at how much desperately needed donation money they spent on just one ex puppy farm brood b!tch Weimirana last year, at the expense of God knows how many healthy dogs that would have been much easier to rehome than a screwed up damaged dog with countless health issues from bad breeding that was never going to live a normal life.

But hey, that's ok cos they never turn a dog away - even from a puppy farm!

Please do google Many Tears - I am familiar with their website and the condition of many of the dogs they take in from puppy farms is appalling.

ManyTears (and other rescues) do rehome ex breeding dogs from these awful places (and good for them too) but are not funding puppy farming as the dogs are being got rid of - Many Tears are also very open about the background of these dogs, (unlike the puppy farmers) so that potential owners know what they are taking on.

Would you rather the breeding b1tches and dogs were shot at the end of their short and miserable life? Cos that is the alternative end for these dogs sadly.

If it wasnt for the rescues, the breeding would still go on, and the spent dogs would be disposed of as economically as possible - which you can bet would not be rehoming, or even humane euthanasia by a vet.

I cannot condemn a rescue for taking on these used and abused animals, but I can condemn those who used and abused them - namely the puppy farmers.

You seem very quick to criticise the 'buyers' here - and whilst I agree that there is an ethical consideration when getting an animal, consumers are conned in all lines of business and this is no different, dogs are commodoties sadly, and yes, the blame lies squarely with the breeders.

However, hopefully as consumers become more aware they will start boycottng breeders who keep churning out dogs whilst 8000 healthy, homeless dogs are being destroyed every year.

We have two rescue dogs in the family (mine and my mums) both wonderful, healthy happy mongrels, and its tragic to think these could have been destroyed if it were not for the good work of the rescues, or if we had decided to go and buy pups from a supposedly good breeder instead.

foreign_correspondent

I would just like to add - best of luck to the OP and please do keep us informed of what happens.

lowis

And while you're at it you might like to answer my question instead of diverting the issue & trying to justify some aspects of the puppy farming trade when it suits you. What message to you think it gives the puppy farmers when they discover how easy it is to dump thier old rubbish on a rescue centre?

so should rescue centres refuse to take on abused dogs from puppy farms? what do you think will happen to the abused dogs? the puppy farmers will just kill them in any way that is simple and cheap for them. rescue centres refusing to take on puppy farm dogs is not going to stop puppy farming, it is not even going to make a dent in the numbers of puppies farmed out. puppy farmers are nasty, cruel people, they won't bat an eyelid if they have to suffocate a dog, poison it, drown it or shoot it in the head or whatever.

at the end of the day rescue centres are run by people who love dogs (mostly) and they exist to help dogs, wherever they came from. even if the rescue centre has to take on a puppy farm dog who has major health issues, at least that rescue centre is staffed by people who will then do the best for that dog in a humane way, whatever that may be.

foreign_correspondent

Well, this is going a bit off topic here, to the OP, I apologise, but I think this does raise some broader question about how to choose where to get a pup from, and how you can tell they are reputable.

I dont know, as we cannot even sort out animal welfare in the highly regulated food industry - despite all the work towards accountability and better welfare regulations some food animals can still be treat very poorly.

I think hindsight is a wonderful thing, but the OP bought this dog in good faith, only to find out later that they had been lied to. That is the fault of the breeder, not the OP, whose worst fault here was perhaps being trusting - I agree totally with Doogiesmom on this.

OP I do hope that there is some come back against these breeders - if not some bad publicity in your local rag may be the best thing to do, and would certainly hit the breeder where it hurts!

Aron - so you think I am wearing 'rose tinted specs'?

I think you may be the one doing that - your arguement really does not hold water - you seem to think that if rescues stop taking on ex breeding b1tchs and dogs that breeders will be driven to stop breeding somehow - presumably because they will not be able to get rid of the dogs so easily? Do you really think this will sting their conciences?

Dog breeding is often motivated by profit not love of dogs. The apparently 'well respected' breeder I know does not seem to even like dogs, and many would rather thay were destroyed at the end of their working life than passed on to pet homes.

Many rescues have to work very hard to actually persuade breeders to pass dogs onto them rather than routinely PTS - in many ways it is the preferable option - for the breeder it is less hassle, and there is less risk of their poor practices being exposed.

Don't forget that many of the welsh farmers (where 'many tears' are based) are ex dairy and sheep farmers who 'diversified' to dog farming when their own industries started to struggle. I grew up around a similar community - have no illusions, these farmers will own their own bolt gun and be used to dispatching animals.

If not, there are plently around that will, like the chap recently exposed in the Sunday Times who will shoot an ex racing greyhound fr a tenner each - much cheaper than the vets and less hassle than rehoming.

suki1964

Doogiesmum wrote: »

What complete rubbish! Puppy farmers should take ALL of the blame, fairly and squarely. What an idiotic stance.

They take the blame for the cruel, squalid and heartless conditions that they subject their dogs to. The responsibility for their animals and any that they sell is theirs alone.

I'm sure you've made bad decisions in the past but we all learn from experience, your comments here are unfair, we've all been naive and trusting in our time. Of course the puppy farmer takes all the blame, they have a duty to behave as honourably as the buyer.

Sorry, but if humans weren't in such a rush to satisfy their "must have right now" attitude puppy farms wouldn't exist.

They only exist to fill the wants of people - no demand there would be no supply

We ALL have to accept out responsibility in keeping thse places open, even if all we are guilty of is turning a blind eye

orlao

Aron

I have to admit that when I first heard about Many tears taking on puppy farm breeding stock that I wondered the same ie are they supporting puppy farming by giving the puppy farmers the opportunity to dispose of worn out stock? However, I came to the conclusion that these dogs are as worthy of rescue as any other....if you follow through on the assumption that they will be difficult to rehome as they have never been socialised, lived in a home etc then you would have to apply that to greyhounds and possibly pound dogs who have no history......as other people have said it's not as if the breeders will keep them alive as pets, is it?

I have a JRT who spent her first couple of years as a breeding machine living in a shed...she has been the easiest dog I've ever had to train both indoors and out, my other JRT came from a similar place at 5 weeks:eek: as her breeders were going to drown her due to a double hernia and being the runt but she was murder to train, just shows you can't generalise.

However both of them have been very healthy low vet bill dogs unlike my pedigree dog who did come from a reputable breeder, his problems have been due to being a pedigree with a small gene pool not due to bad breeding IYSWIM so I'd be another person who'd give a vote to mongrels:D .

IMO anyone who goes looking for a dog should take the responsibility for doing enough research to try and make sure that they don't support this vile trade but it is a bit harsh to place all the blame on the OP...can any one say that they have never been conned at some point in their lives?