Bank paying-in receipt worthless?

damienuk

Long story short: my friend owed me some money (721.50) which they withdrew from 2 of their own bank accounts (500 from Nationwide, 221.50 from RBS), and paid in to my Natwest account.

The cashier counted the money (twice) and stated the amount they counted. This was 721.50, and they made the receipt out in this amount.

That was credited to my account, and then a few days later I noticed a 100 "paid out" line when I checked via online banking. After querying, this turns out to be a correction by that branch as they apparently miscounted (remember, twice).

Putting aside the fact that I have many reasons to believe they're wrong about that point, does the fact that they handed over a receipt saying they took charge of 721.50 for my account really mean nothing (as they basically claim)?

Why do they issue a receipt when you pay something in if it doesn't actually stand for anything?

Any advice about what to do from here? It seems like a stalemate, because the bank are absolutely sure that their balance sheet voucher shows 621.50 made up of 31 x £20 and 3 x 50p. But how do you miscount FIVE £20 notes? That's a big mistake for miscounting... when the miscounted figure also neatly matches to the figure you thought that you had in your hand as well?

Am I unreasonable in my belief that Natwest are trying to insult my intelligence, or does this kind of mistake genuinely happen (i.e. is it actually possible for them to miscount by £100 and the rest of the course of events according to them).

Part of the problem is that I didn't personally pay the money in to my own account, but I don't see that makes much difference in the scheme of things. I have no reason to doubt my friend on this matter, and to be honest it's highly unlikely that he could engineer this "mistake" to pocket £100 for himself!

Extant

Did you count the cash yourself?

If they managed to balance the till and their breakdown slip shows £621.50, I don't know where you'd go with this - as there would be no evidence to support your claim, other than the testimony of your friend.

I don't think you have any legal basis, either, but I may be wrong. Having a receipt doesn't necessarily entitle you to the amount listed, after all - think about a cheque bouncing etc.

damienuk

Unfortunately I wasn't at the branch in question (and have never been there, or to that town) so I haven't personally counted the cash.

However, my problem with the mistake isn't about whether I got my 721.50 or 621.50 (with my friend owing me the remaining 100 still). The problem is that it doesn't seem to make sense as their series of events:

• Withdraws 500 from Nationwide
• Withdraws 221.50 from RBS
• Friend counts both amounts after each withdrawal, and puts them together - counting the total amount whilst queuing to pay it in to my account
• Friend hands money to cashier (without mentioning the amount of money present), and after the cashier counts the money through twice they state the amount as 721.50
• The transaction is completed etc.
• Later they decide that it doesn't balance up and therefore the amount paid in must've been 621.50 (I've been told by the branch manager that the breakdown slip shows as per my original post)

I'm really struggling with the point that the money can be counted so many times (of course Natwest, and a court, surely only acknowledge the counting by the cashier as significant), and come to the correct amount each time - but then the amount at the end of it is apparently found to be 100 less (5 notes short).

Surely the point for contention of such an issue is when the cashier counts the money up and issues the receipt; if there's any dispute at this point it's easy to lay the cash out and count it up again etc.

At what point is the breakdown slip written out? During the transaction? Or later?

Also in terms of the "think about a cheque bouncing etc." I don't see how a receipt for hard cash can be equated? If they found 5 x £20 notes to be fake then maybe... but this is not the argument, so what right do they have to change their mind? What prevents them (e.g. a cashier) making the "error" on a breakdown slip deliberately so they can lift £100? That way the slip and the till balance...

I'm not suggesting that as the likely cause btw - just putting the question out there for those who know to answer.

Extant

I offered the example of a cheque bouncing as a parallel example - yes it is slightly different, but merely using it to illustrate the idea that a receipt doesn't entitle you to the money.

You are right, that yes, the point of contention should be when the cash is counted by a cashier - but, if they're got a balance sheet with the lower amount on it and their till balanced, I'd be surprised if you could get anywhere.

As for the possibility of a cashier stealing - yes, it's possible, but it's actually not as likely as you think. It's very difficult to get away with, even if they do it infrequently. Plus, banks don't tend to just hire anybody, even as cashiers.

Neillgb

So to confirm.

You have a clear receipt for £721.50.

Why not threaten them with court action using MCOL for the £100. How can you lose??

The technical issues are the banks problem, not yours.

damienuk

Neillgb wrote: »

You have a clear receipt for £721.50.

Yes.

Neillgb wrote: »

Why not threaten them with court action using MCOL for the £100. How can you lose??

MCOL? Please go on...

Neillgb

I had a similar experience with the Nat West.

In my case I was told some two months after the transaction that the paying in slip was incorrect and that I owed them £30 ish quid!!

Strangely when I asked them to prove it they , as a gesture of goodwill(lol), would not be asking for the money.

BTW it was an error on their part and I was not trying it on!!

Neillgb

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

Hopefully they won't make you go to this extreme.

Mrs_Ryan

This has happened to me as well... money vanishing into thin air after paying it in (paid in some money three or four days before a DD due, got receipt, checked a few days later to see DD had gone out - was overdrawn.) The money hadnt even shown on my acct... they did credit the money back but said WHEN the money was found (it never was found by the way) they wanted it back, strangely when I complained about that and other things they chose to ignore it.
Strange that its NatWest where all these problems occurred...

ShelfStacker_3

This is why a paper paying-in slip is always a good idea - it protects you, as YOU wrote it knowing how much you have, and the cashier checks against it and can flag up any errors - then if their total differs from yours then it's clearly their mistake and be corrected.

But to be honest, it sounds like they're clutching at straws. If they gave you a receipt or £712, after counting it twice, and then decided it was £100 less... well, that's just stupid. Keep on at them.

olly300

Follow Natwest's complaints procedure in writing and at the end of your letters state you won't hesitate to take them to the Financial ombudsman's service.

Make sure you can prove that Natwest got the letters otherwise Natwest may claim not to have received them. Also ensure that your friend is happy to prove how much they took out etc.

Note it costs Natwest more than £100 if you eventually take them to the Financial Ombudsman service. And you can only use the service once you have exhausted the bank's complaints procedure in writing.