just about to complete puchase......no planning or building regs for attic conversion

silvercar

We bought our house with a conservatory on it that didn't have planning permission and wouldn't pass building regs. We proceeded on the basis that if we were forced to remove it we still would have bought the house.

If your problem is going to cause you sleepness nights I would not bother. I would have a word with the council (even mention the address now while you are not under any obilgation to keep quiet) and ask if they think retrospective planning permission would be granted. If the council seems positive then reduce your offer to allow for the work that needs doing for building regs. The fact that everyone is rushing you suggests that they hope they can push you, particularly as innocent FTBs, into signing quickly. At the end of the day, if you buy you are going to want to regulate the situation so you don't have a problem on selling so the indemnity policy is not worth anything if it doesn't allow you to regulate the situation.

One last point, I believe current building regs on attic conversions require fire doors throughout the house. Consider the effect on any house insurance claim if you had a fire.

Good luck. Remember a house is the most expensive thing you buy, don't feel pushed into doing something you are not happy with.

Ian_W

I would be very surprised if the loft "converstion" needs Planning Permission, particularly if it has velux rather than dormer windows so the outside appearance is unaffected.

I've just changed my backdoor without planning permission. If you were buying my house and your solicitor told you this and offered to sell you an indeminity policy you'd assume it was because I needed PP to do it. My new back door doesn't need PP, so first thing IMO is to find out from the Council if the loft conversion does. As I said I don't think it will if the outside appearance isn't changed greatly. Many internal alterations to a house don't need PP, though they may still need BR's approval.

Silvercar's example above of a conservatory without PP isn't unusual, it's the norm. Why? Because in most cases conservatories don't need PP.

Then to Building Regs. What's the loft been converted into? If it's a bedroom or other "habitable" space it will need BR's which are primarily aimed, in this instance, at fire escape measures. BUT if it's been "converted" into a loft room then it's use hasn't atually changed, it's just more accessable and useable but still a loft so I don't believe BR's come into play either.

10's or even 100's of 1000's of houses have loft rooms that don't have PP or comply with BR's without any problem and they're bought and sold all the time. If the conversion was shown as one of the bedrooms of the house on the EA's particulars it should comply with BR's but if it's simply shown as a loft room and you do go for getting PP [which I doubt is needed] and compliance with BR's the house increases by 1 bedroom and legitimatley could command a higher price, eg it's now officially 3 not 2 bedrooms, or whatever the figures are.

I agree that because there is no paperwork the conversion should be checked but any half decent builder should be able to do that for you. I've seen quite a few that have been done to a high standard but don't comply with BR's because the aim was to give extra useable space rather than an extra bedroom. Whether that adds extra value to the property is another matter altogether.

If you want some more info on when PP is needed look HERE. It doesn't specifically mention lofts but does give a general guide.

[Deleted User]

Good point Ian, it could be that the loft conversion was done under 'permitted development'.

Ian_W

Hi van,
Don't think it's even that. Permitted development allows you to extend by up to 10% [houses, not flats] but this is simply an interior alteration which doesn't increase the size of the prop. Like you can knock down a wall between your kitchen and dining room to form a larger room, no PP needed tho' BR's may be.

eileenfromplaistow

OP mentioned a dormer window.
So if there is an alteration to the roof line, PP should have been obtained.
Apart from that, I suppose it depends on whether the details described it as a bedroom or a "loft room", and whether OP is paying for a legal room. Only he knows what the other properties in that price band offer.
It's more than possible that no beams were used to strengthen the floor, and "making good" is more expensive than doing it right first time. Plus the fire doors, linked smoke alarms, loft fire exit, planning permission and BRs.
I wouldn't trust the insurance (sounds like a dog to claim on), but by all means offer below the stamp duty threshold, unless prices have rocketed since the offer was made when the seller would be happy putting it back on the market.

Ian_W

Missed that about the dormer eileen, well spotted.

You may know more about this than me but I've been in loadsa "loft rooms" with dormers that clearly don't have BR's [no fire doors, alarms etc] yet LA's don't seem to give jack sheet about all these sprouting dorma's clouding the skyline without PP.

Any ideas why that might be, if PP is being flouted?

eileenfromplaistow

Sorry, no just an informed amateur. I'm too much of a wimp to do something without PP
Glad I'm not a FTB again, although my DDs hope to be in the next couple of years, and they are going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel (no offence to FTBs !!!!)

romeobrass

thanks eileen, ian and van. and all other users commenting.

yes dormer window has been istalled rather than skylight.

No the house prices havn't rocketed up. they seem to be the same as when we put offer in.

yes the property was listed by EA's as 2 bedroom even without building regs cert.

and yes, acording to the EA this area has got a lot of loft conversions without PP.

we're going to ask the surveyers what they would value the property as a one bedroom with loft room/ the property without planning and building reg. certificate.

ask builders for quote to get property up to building regs standard.

and speak to planning people about the procedure/ time frame/ cost to get connversion validated?

from what people have been saying on forum and friends/work colleages etc it seems we might be in a better possition than i first thought. it seems we will hopefully beable to use this as a good bargining tool.

EA said she will most proberbly put it back on market if we don't want to go ahead with just the idemnity policy. If she desides to wash her hands of us and put it back on the market so be it, however it seems like she'll be in the same position again.

seems like i've got to toughen up and not be pushed about by parties with vested interests. haha

thanks again people

Debt_Free_Chick

Just two quick comments to add to the excellent advice already given.

Firstly, the loft conversion may not require planning permission - or may not have required PP when it was done. Find out when it was converted and ring the Planning Officer at the local authority.

Secondly, the work may well comply with Building Regs ... but it's simply that the Building Control Officer did not issue the certificate. This happened to me with some underpinning that was done as an insurance claim. The work was all done to standard and the Building Control Officer visited the site and passed the work. However, he did not issue a certificate and was surprised and a little irritated that the buyer's solicitor insisted on it.

It could be that your solicitor is being particularly picky - which is fine and what you pay her/him for - but don't think that the conversion is not up to standard. It could be and that it's just that the paperwork is not in order.

You need to find out more about this .... have you spoken to the vendors?

Gem_

In terms of planning permission, Ian W is right you dont normally need PP for internal changes - except in the case of a terraced house in which case you do need permission for a loft conversion (you dont for a semi or a detached though! very weird).

Are you in a wealthy part of the country? I am in yorkshire and probably 90% of terrace loft conversions dont have planning concent here - the planning people are so glad you are living there and not turning your house into something scary they would never mention it.

If the conversion is 10 years plus then I am sure getting retrospective permission will be a breese. I didnt bother on my last house and its never been an issue.

I remember how scary being a FTB was though - good luck

Gem