New Kaupthing CHAPS/BACS Transfers discussion - Friday 24th October

frantic1

I actuallly received a call from Kaupthing this morning saying that my CHAPS transfer from the 7th had now been traced and that I would definitely get the payment by COB next Monday. When asked what the problem had been, I was given some waffle about the original transaction having been requested by KE but then rejected (by whom they wouldn't say!). They said the payment would now be processed by SWIFT. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and wait until Monday night, but I'm not holding my breath!

Stonehands

Well im going to email Maggie Mills and vent at her!

ladyhepburn

Thanks Martin and Dan for all efforts you're making with this :T - it's nice to know that we're not forgotten by everyone! :rolleyes:

The 'dedicated helpline number' now seems to have disappeared from ING's site. I would like to point out that all the call centre staff I've dealt with have all been friendly and helpful (well, up to the point they can be, anyway!) - refreshing, seeing as working in a call centre is a fairly thankless job at the best of times, let alone when you have to deal with some seriously disgruntled customers.

On the not-so-plus side, I will apparently be contacted in the next 48 'working business' hours (i.e. not til Monday at the earliest, judging by other posts), and KE even locked me out of the online login system for a time!

Lady Hepburn

Dutchcowpat

Hi to Martin and Dan Glad to see you are active again many thanks.

Current situation

35K out on 10th CHAPS left account 15th NOTHING!!!

Stock replies as other forum members.

Rang ING to get some help there put through to escalation. Unable to help said until KPE Books come over nothing to do with them and they could not and would not put me through to anybody else. I suggested I would close my ING business he agreed if I felt that badly about things. Passed to supervisor who said she would put me through to somebody who would alay my fears, pointed out I had already been there. Closed all my businessand withdrew my investments. Cost £400 but I am so mentally and physically tired I felt I had to do something.

I am an original ING customer and thought they were one of the best up to now.


Meanwhile back at KPE I was given phone number for Ernst which turned out to be another ING red herring. This was the number for Kaupthing Singer not edge enquiry desk. Very helpful sympathetic and polite lady but she could not help.

In an effort to close further KPE fixed account this failed thaey are trying again tomorrow.

My thanks to Ann-M Asq. at KPE if only for trying to break the deadlock.

To the HEAD of ING department involved in all this you are a disgrace.


I am just so tired and fed up with it all.

My support to all and especially those of you who feel as bad as I do and have no answer.

:mad: :mad:

carlostk

I've just read this from fool.co.uk, it's the most helpful explanation as to what happened to our monies.

http://www.fool.co.uk/news/your-money/savings/2008/10/09/wheres-my-kaupthing-cash.aspx

Where’s My Kaupthing Cash?

Published in Savings on 9 October 2008
If you tried to make a transfer from your Kaupthing Edge savings account this week -- and you're still missing your money -- here's what may have happened to it.
Since yesterday’s take-over of Kaupthing Edge’s savings accounts by ING Direct UK, there’s been a flurry of very worried activity in the comments space below the article I wrote reporting the move.
We’ve even had phone calls to our office. Many Fools are very concerned that CHAPS transfers made from their Kaupthing Edge savings accounts have not been completed.
Money seems to have been debited from these Kaupthing Edge accounts, but has not arrived at the destination accounts nominated -- despite the fact that a CHAPS transfer fee for the transaction has in some cases been charged.
And for the savers in question, this is truly scary.
Concerned Kaupthing customers from the Isle of Man should read this article, as it contains more relevant information for them.
So what happened?

Today, I have spoken with APACS (the UK Payments Association), the Financial Services Compensation Scheme and a spokesperson from Kaupthing Edge.
The bad news is that there’s some confusion over exactly what’s happened with these missing CHAPS payments.
But the good news is that everyone I spoke to was keen to assure savers they’d get all their money back.
APACS

According to APACS, any CHAPS transfers that were set up on the evening before ING Direct's takeover of Kaupthing Edge savings would not have been due for processing until banks reopened the following morning. By this time, unfortunately, a freeze on all Kaupthing accounts was in place.
Although CHAPS transactions are supposed to be same-day transfers, most banks have a cut-off point in place -- typically around 2pm -- after which no more transactions can be processed that day.
If you missed the deadline for authorising a CHAPS payment from your account this Tuesday, or tried to organise one yesterday, APACS says the transaction will not have been processed. This is due to the freeze on accounts which was, by that time, in place.
What does this mean for my money?

According to APACS, this processing problem means that although some people's money appears to have been moved from Kaupthing Edge, it has not in fact left the bank.
While customers’ on-screen statements might show that money has been moved, it is actually still with Kaupthing Edge -- now under the control of ING Direct.
So, any money that you have tried to transfer out of your Kaupthing Edge account should automatically reappear on your statement soon -- although APACS says it’s difficult to say exactly when this will happen.
If APACS is right, ING Direct will now need to trace the transactions customers have made and ensure that everyone’s money is returned to them -- which I think might take some time.
APACS’ advice

APACS’ main message was that people in this difficult situation should try not to panic -- and should keep an eye on their account for the return of the sum they have tried to transfer.
However, the APACS spokesperson I talked with this morning did say it’s important that customers who have attempted unsuccessful transfers print off records of this, and any other recent activity on their accounts, and keep them safe.
Having evidence that you’ve paid for a CHAPS transfer which has not been properly processed should mean you are ultimately able to reclaim the fee for it.
Kaupthing Edge’s comments

After a prolonged telephonic wild goose chase, I finally managed to speak with someone at Kaupthing Edge this afternoon.
Bizarrely, it accounts for the missing CHAPS money in an entirely different way to APACS...
A technical glitch

According to Kaupthing Edge’s spokesperson, the problem with customers’ CHAPS transfers is entirely unrelated to the events of yesterday.
They put the ‘disappearance’ of some customers’ transfers down to a technical glitch: a problem between Kaupthing Edge and the CHAPS clearer, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS).
According to Kaupthing Edge, this problem was spotted well before the bank’s savings accounts were transferred to ING Direct.
As such, Kaupthing Edge is working with RBS to resolve the problem.
However, the person I spoke with could not confirm whether the money in question will be bounced back to customers’ Kaupthing Edge accounts, or forwarded on to the destination accounts originally nominated.
But, whatever happens, the money should eventually turn up. It's simply a matter of: where?
The FSCS

Britain’s FSCS has been involved with the take-over of Kaupthing Edge’s savings accounts by ING Direct -- so it has its own part to play for consumers.
The FSCS contributed money to facilitate the transfer of Kaupthing Edge’s internet savings accounts to ING Direct, and helped ensure the money in those accounts is protected.
However, Kaupthing Edge and Heritable Bank customers whose accounts are not operated online did not have their savings accounts transferred to ING Direct.
This affects around 3,000 Kaupthing Edge customers and 100 Heritable customers. These people will now be contacted directly by the FSCS so that they can claim whatever compensation is due.
So is my money safe?

As I said at the beginning of this article, the good news for Kaupthing Edge customers is that everyone I’ve spoken to today is sure they’ll get all their money back.
The spokesperson from Kaupthing was especially keen to reassure customers that they wouldn’t lose a penny.
So I’d advise Kaupthing Edge savers to try and stay calm -- and watch all their accounts very carefully over the next few days to see if (and where) their missing money turns up.
I know this is an incredibly stressful time for anyone with savings. It’s terrible to wonder where your hard earned cash has gone -- but the message from everyone I talked with today was to stay calm and hang in there.
Hopefully, in line with what I’ve found out (and no matter which version of events turns out to be right), ex-Kaupthing Edge customers will soon be able to breathe easier again.

Greecian

Hi Dutchcowpat: You're not alone, we're all in this together. But I really understand how you feel, chin up, be kind to yourself.

iblamethebanks

Has anyone else noticed that 2 of the administrators appointed from Ernst & Young namely Maggie Mills and Alan Bloom are the same administrators appointed to deal with the other failed Icelandic bank Landsbanki / Heritable and all their UK subsidiaries like Key Business finance Corporation ? These 2 are going to be very busy people and whilst I dont think for one second either will be dealing with mundane matters like tracing our lost life savings personally , surely their teams have far too much to do which is adding to the delay in info coming from them to ING ( if what ING tells Martin is true ) Perhaps something the financial broadsheets might take an interest in , Martin ?

Katykay

carlostk wrote: »

I've just read this from fool.co.uk, it's the most helpful explanation as to what happened to our monies.

http://www.fool.co.uk/news/your-money/savings/2008/10/09/wheres-my-kaupthing-cash.aspx

Where’s My Kaupthing Cash?

Published in Savings on 9 October 2008
If you tried to make a transfer from your Kaupthing Edge savings account this week -- and you're still missing your money -- here's what may have happened to it.
Since yesterday’s take-over of Kaupthing Edge’s savings accounts by ING Direct UK, there’s been a flurry of very worried activity in the comments space below the article I wrote reporting the move.
We’ve even had phone calls to our office. Many Fools are very concerned that CHAPS transfers made from their Kaupthing Edge savings accounts have not been completed.
Money seems to have been debited from these Kaupthing Edge accounts, but has not arrived at the destination accounts nominated -- despite the fact that a CHAPS transfer fee for the transaction has in some cases been charged.
And for the savers in question, this is truly scary.

Hopefully, in line with what I’ve found out (and no matter which version of events turns out to be right), ex-Kaupthing Edge customers will soon be able to breathe easier again.

This article was written on October 9th just as the saga began and has not been updated since as far as I can see. Therefore, unless KE/ING have been telling the truth from the start, it is unlikely to be the full story.

normanb_3

The www.fool.co.uk site announcement appears preoccupied with CHAPS transfers having gone missing.

Our missing payments are through the BACS scheme. We're even more worried now.

APACS understands, after discussion with KE:- "While customers’ on-screen statements might show that money has been moved, it is actually still with Kaupthing Edge -- now under the control of ING Direct."

If the money hasn't left KE and is in the control of ING Direct, why can't KE or ING can write us a cheque now and find/cancel the payments that are lost in a clearing bank system and do their inter-bank reconciliations in their own time.

carlostk

carlostk wrote: »

I've just read this from fool.co.uk, it's the most helpful explanation as to what happened to our monies.

http://www.fool.co.uk/news/your-money/savings/2008/10/09/wheres-my-kaupthing-cash.aspx

Where’s My Kaupthing Cash?

Published in Savings on 9 October 2008
If you tried to make a transfer from your Kaupthing Edge savings account this week -- and you're still missing your money -- here's what may have happened to it.
Since yesterday’s take-over of Kaupthing Edge’s savings accounts by ING Direct UK, there’s been a flurry of very worried activity in the comments space below the article I wrote reporting the move.
We’ve even had phone calls to our office. Many Fools are very concerned that CHAPS transfers made from their Kaupthing Edge savings accounts have not been completed.
Money seems to have been debited from these Kaupthing Edge accounts, but has not arrived at the destination accounts nominated -- despite the fact that a CHAPS transfer fee for the transaction has in some cases been charged.
And for the savers in question, this is truly scary.
Concerned Kaupthing customers from the Isle of Man should read this article, as it contains more relevant information for them.
So what happened?

Today, I have spoken with APACS (the UK Payments Association), the Financial Services Compensation Scheme and a spokesperson from Kaupthing Edge.
The bad news is that there’s some confusion over exactly what’s happened with these missing CHAPS payments.
But the good news is that everyone I spoke to was keen to assure savers they’d get all their money back.
APACS

According to APACS, any CHAPS transfers that were set up on the evening before ING Direct's takeover of Kaupthing Edge savings would not have been due for processing until banks reopened the following morning. By this time, unfortunately, a freeze on all Kaupthing accounts was in place.
Although CHAPS transactions are supposed to be same-day transfers, most banks have a cut-off point in place -- typically around 2pm -- after which no more transactions can be processed that day.
If you missed the deadline for authorising a CHAPS payment from your account this Tuesday, or tried to organise one yesterday, APACS says the transaction will not have been processed. This is due to the freeze on accounts which was, by that time, in place.
What does this mean for my money?

According to APACS, this processing problem means that although some people's money appears to have been moved from Kaupthing Edge, it has not in fact left the bank.
While customers’ on-screen statements might show that money has been moved, it is actually still with Kaupthing Edge -- now under the control of ING Direct.
So, any money that you have tried to transfer out of your Kaupthing Edge account should automatically reappear on your statement soon -- although APACS says it’s difficult to say exactly when this will happen.
If APACS is right, ING Direct will now need to trace the transactions customers have made and ensure that everyone’s money is returned to them -- which I think might take some time.
APACS’ advice

APACS’ main message was that people in this difficult situation should try not to panic -- and should keep an eye on their account for the return of the sum they have tried to transfer.
However, the APACS spokesperson I talked with this morning did say it’s important that customers who have attempted unsuccessful transfers print off records of this, and any other recent activity on their accounts, and keep them safe.
Having evidence that you’ve paid for a CHAPS transfer which has not been properly processed should mean you are ultimately able to reclaim the fee for it.
Kaupthing Edge’s comments

After a prolonged telephonic wild goose chase, I finally managed to speak with someone at Kaupthing Edge this afternoon.
Bizarrely, it accounts for the missing CHAPS money in an entirely different way to APACS...
A technical glitch

According to Kaupthing Edge’s spokesperson, the problem with customers’ CHAPS transfers is entirely unrelated to the events of yesterday.
They put the ‘disappearance’ of some customers’ transfers down to a technical glitch: a problem between Kaupthing Edge and the CHAPS clearer, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS).
According to Kaupthing Edge, this problem was spotted well before the bank’s savings accounts were transferred to ING Direct.
As such, Kaupthing Edge is working with RBS to resolve the problem.
However, the person I spoke with could not confirm whether the money in question will be bounced back to customers’ Kaupthing Edge accounts, or forwarded on to the destination accounts originally nominated.
But, whatever happens, the money should eventually turn up. It's simply a matter of: where?
The FSCS

Britain’s FSCS has been involved with the take-over of Kaupthing Edge’s savings accounts by ING Direct -- so it has its own part to play for consumers.
The FSCS contributed money to facilitate the transfer of Kaupthing Edge’s internet savings accounts to ING Direct, and helped ensure the money in those accounts is protected.
However, Kaupthing Edge and Heritable Bank customers whose accounts are not operated online did not have their savings accounts transferred to ING Direct.
This affects around 3,000 Kaupthing Edge customers and 100 Heritable customers. These people will now be contacted directly by the FSCS so that they can claim whatever compensation is due.
So is my money safe?

As I said at the beginning of this article, the good news for Kaupthing Edge customers is that everyone I’ve spoken to today is sure they’ll get all their money back.
The spokesperson from Kaupthing was especially keen to reassure customers that they wouldn’t lose a penny.
So I’d advise Kaupthing Edge savers to try and stay calm -- and watch all their accounts very carefully over the next few days to see if (and where) their missing money turns up.
I know this is an incredibly stressful time for anyone with savings. It’s terrible to wonder where your hard earned cash has gone -- but the message from everyone I talked with today was to stay calm and hang in there.
Hopefully, in line with what I’ve found out (and no matter which version of events turns out to be right), ex-Kaupthing Edge customers will soon be able to breathe easier again.

What this article shows is that there's a blaming game going on. One party blames it to the timing of the transfer, others to the clearing bank (RBS), others to the administrators (E&Y).

We depositors do not care who's fault is it. We just want our savings. There are two ways of getting our savings:

1) wait for all blamed parties to sort out what happen and finally we get our savings, or

2) have ING make the payments to us NOW (just write us a check) and short out whatever they (RBS, E&Y, back office, etc...) need to short out by themselves LATER. Obviously, ING will not volunteer to do this, unless there is MEDIA PRESSURE... Martin?