permitted work

SteveCat

foxxymynx wrote: »

btw these also have the contract with DWP to help get back to work.

If she's making cards and not making any money, she's not working.

See thats where it gets confusing, I would agree to that as in the terms of a Business you can be operating as many do but without any profit 'your earnings' Therefore how can permitted work apply when you are not earning money out of it, afterall thats what they are trying to stop people doing and to some degree thats why it was brought in along with the discrimination element that has always existed.

SteveCat

foxxymynx wrote: »

yep I've found that one, I thought that there must have been another, because of the thing that was said about being accused of being a fraudster.

I think these words from the thread suggest exactly that: check it out before someone checks you out and you are deemed to be defrauding the benefit system - which can be a prisonable offence and you will ahve to pay back all the money the benefit agency say you have received fraudulently.

foxxymynx

SteveCat wrote: »

I think these words from the thread suggest exactly that: check it out before someone checks you out and you are deemed to be defrauding the benefit system - which can be a prisonable offence and you will ahve to pay back all the money the benefit agency say you have received fraudulently.

I may be wrong, but I think that was meant to read like "it's better to double check that you're right now, rather than find out down the line that you're unintentionally breaking their rules that are as clear as mud, and them punishing you for it, because technically it would be seen by them as fraud"?

That's how I read it anyway, - I really don't think the OP was having a go at you, just a misunderstanding - communicating on boards is always difficult because there's no body language, atmosphere etc etc so things are easy to misinterpretate.

foxxymynx

SteveCat wrote: »

See thats where it gets confusing, I would agree to that as in the terms of a Business you can be operating as many do but without any profit 'your earnings' Therefore how can permitted work apply when you are not earning money out of it, afterall thats what they are trying to stop people doing and to some degree thats why it was brought in along with the discrimination element that has always existed.

yes, I agree with you, but DWPs rules are as clear as mud IMO. I heard that you can do voluentary work for a charity - but you can't run that charity. To me that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but maybe that's just me.

Handmade cards are a hobby/craft, it takes alot to make it into a business. Selling one card cannot feasably be seen as a business. Letting one property may be seen as a business. I don't know? That's why people are saying double check - because no one wants you to get stung by DWP.

SteveCat

foxxymynx wrote: »

I may be wrong, but I think that was meant to read like "it's better to double check that you're right now, rather than find out down the line that you're unintentionally breaking their rules that are as clear as mud, and them punishing you for it, because technically it would be seen by them as fraud"?

That's how I read it anyway, - I really don't think the OP was having a go at you, just a misunderstanding - communicating on boards is always difficult because there's no body language, atmosphere etc etc so things are easy to misinterpretate.

Thats fair enough but my point is it didn't need to get brought up in the 1st place. My whole point of seeking this advise is so that kind of mentality can be avoided as it exists everywhere. I am desperately trying to make sure I am doing no wrong due to the complex issues that exist. Its bloody hard enough without it being brought up when its not needed.

SteveCat

foxxymynx wrote: »

yes, I agree with you, but DWPs rules are as clear as mud IMO. I heard that you can do voluentary work for a charity - but you can't run that charity. To me that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but maybe that's just me.

Handmade cards are a hobby/craft, it takes alot to make it into a business. Selling one card cannot feasably be seen as a business. Letting one property may be seen as a business. I don't know? That's why people are saying double check - because no one wants you to get stung by DWP.

Thats fair enough however I do have 3 years worth of accounts showing no profits from a Chartered Accountant. He's the one up to now that I have seeked advice from, however I will give some other people a call tomorrow.

Regarding the Cards, if she made one at a 50p cost and sold it for £2.50 that would be a Business surely? Thats how easy it is and thats the very thin line we are talking about right across the board.

foxxymynx

SteveCat wrote: »

Thats fair enough but my point is it didn't need to get brought up in the 1st place. My whole point of seeking this advise is so that kind of mentality can be avoided as it exists everywhere. I am desperately trying to make sure I am doing no wrong due to the complex issues that exist. Its bloody hard enough without it being brought up when its not needed.

I dunno, maybe the OP was just elaborating on why they were saying what they were saying? I kinda do that alot then look back and it looks like I've written a book! lol I think they just don't want DWP to sting you, for something that you didn't know that you were doing wrong - if you're doing anying wrong at all - which you probably aren't, but if you're unsure it's better to double check. Like I said, the oppertunites people will be able to advise you loads better on stuff like that, than what we can. They know all the rules, regulations and any loopholes I really don't think the OP meant to offend or upset you though

foxxymynx

SteveCat wrote: »

Thats fair enough however I do have 3 years worth of accounts showing no profits from a Chartered Accountant. He's the one up to now that I have seeked advice from, however I will give some other people a call tomorrow.

Regarding the Cards, if she made one at a 50p cost and sold it for £2.50 that would be a Business surely? Thats how easy it is and thats the very thin line we are talking about right across the board.

I really don't know

Good luck with your phonecall tomorrow. I really hope that they can help you, especially with your plans for your own business. I've heard alot of good things about them.

mardatha

ok thanks for this. The system is as clear as mud- and as usual, the ones who want to fiddle it will easily find out how to do it - and the ones who want to do the right thing will be hassled to hell until they just go away and lie down LOL
When you worry yourself sick about things like this and then read that half of Britains big companies don't pay any corporation tax or whatever its called---it lets you see how things really are in this country ...:) !

SteveCat

mardatha wrote: »

ok thanks for this. The system is as clear as mud- and as usual, the ones who want to fiddle it will easily find out how to do it - and the ones who want to do the right thing will be hassled to hell until they just go away and lie down LOL
When you worry yourself sick about things like this and then read that half of Britains big companies don't pay any corporation tax or whatever its called---it lets you see how things really are in this country ...:) !

I totally agree, its ridiculous considering yet again I need advice and yet again I cannot find it anywhere. I look at it this way, if my books show no profit then I am doing no wrong. If I am then its because the system is not clear on advice that I need whilst I am in this situation. It really is ridiculous considering there are people out there waiting to pounce on people's mistakes due to this joke of a system.