Lapland New Forest Scam. How to get money back...

GomerPyle

On a serious note - if you want a clear and straight forward guide to chargeback, I present you with this link, I post it mainly because it appears that many banks and card companies appear to be unaware of the procedure.

Ironically this one is provided by RBS.

http://www.worldpay.com/support/kb/mergedProjects/disputemanagement/dm1100.htm

http://www.worldpay.com/support/kb/mergedProjects/disputemanagement/dm1200.htm

It relates to worldpay, but it's the same fundamental process. Once you trigger the process then the customer or their bank have to justify why you can't have your money back, and in these circumstances, that's pretty hard to do. You may be required to provide details, evidence, and that's reasonable.

If you claim as a creditor, then it is likely you won't get much, if anything. Going through your card company is the only way to sure to get a full refund. If the account of LNF Ltd doesn't have the funds, then RBS will have to realise any security they hold, otherwise it comes out of their pockets, but that's the risk they took.

whitewing

I'll edit this post later with anything I can find today.

From today's Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/03/new-forest-lapland-refund

And The Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4077973/Thousands-are-refused-refunds-from-sham-Lapland-theme-park.html

And The Sun:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2091338.ece

And The Mirror:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/01/03/blunderland-fails-to-pay-out-refunds-115875-21011823/

And The Daily Star:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/64222/Flopland-cash-snub-to-50-000/

______________________________________________________________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=17633351#post17633351

trisontana

As usual in these matters it's everybody's fault apart from the organizers. I like this quote from them :- "intentional organised crowd manipulation and event sabotage".

No, I think the only people who were doing the "manipulation" were Mears and his clan. They fooled people, via an impressive looking website, that they were going to enjoy a wonderful day out.

whitewing

GomerPyle wrote: »

On a serious note - if you want a clear and straight forward guide to chargeback, I present you with this link, I post it mainly because it appears that many banks and card companies appear to be unaware of the procedure.

Ironically this one is provided by RBS.

http://www.worldpay.com/support/kb/mergedProjects/disputemanagement/dm1100.htm

http://www.worldpay.com/support/kb/mergedProjects/disputemanagement/dm1200.htm

It relates to worldpay, but it's the same fundamental process. Once you trigger the process then the customer or their bank have to justify why you can't have your money back, and in these circumstances, that's pretty hard to do. You may be required to provide details, evidence, and that's reasonable.

If you claim as a creditor, then it is likely you won't get much, if anything. Going through your card company is the only way to sure to get a full refund. If the account of LNF Ltd doesn't have the funds, then RBS will have to realise any security they hold, otherwise it comes out of their pockets, but that's the risk they took.

Gomer,

I know I'm being thick, but are you basically saying that, regardless of the amount of the tickets purchased (ie even under £100), anybody who paid with any type of card (Visa/Maestro/Debit/Credit) should now contact their bank to follow this chargeback procedure, backing it up with evidence that has been posted on this thread?

And should they do this straight away, even if they've written to Lapland and not had a response or returned mail?

______________________________________________________________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=17633351#post17633351

GomerPyle

For those who paid by cheque I ask them to recall where they sent their cheques to

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/uk/648185-Anyone-been-to-Lapland-in-the-New-Forest

QUOTE
I booked 8 tickets in October and spoke to a girl on the phone who gave me an address to send cheques to 14 Onslow Road Hove BN3 5LN
UNQUOTE

The address quoted is neither the registered address of the company, nor the address of Mr Victor Robert Mears Senior

http://www.mouseprice.com/HouseDetails.aspx?PostCodeAddressID=4978277

QUOTE
Onslow Road in Mickleover DE3 comprises 82 homes. Of these properties, 100 per cent are residential (i.e. there is no commercial property in Onslow Road).
UNQUOTE

So who would be receiving these cheques ?

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/eiir/IIRCaseIndivDetail.asp?CaseId=42301267&IndivNo=1&Court=BRI&OfficeID=20&CaseType=B

QUOTE
Report for Bankruptcy Case

Individual Details

Surname MEARS Forename(s) VICTOR ROBERT Title MR Occupation Sales & customer services Date of Birth 20 November 1966 Last Known Address 14 Onslow Road
Hove
BN3 6TAUNQUOTE

.... and this person is reputed to be the son of his father, of the same name, and as an undischarged bankrupt, any evidence of his involvement in LNF Ltd would be a serious matter.

http://www.ashleypark.co.uk/bankruptcy_faq.php

QUOTE
The following are criminal offences for an undischarged bankrupt:

• Obtaining credit of £500 or more either alone or jointly with any another person without disclosing your bankruptcy.
• Carrying on business (directly or indirectly) in a different name from that in which you were made bankrupt, without telling all those with whom you do business the name in which you were made bankrupt;
• Being concerned (directly or indirectly) in promoting, forming or managing a limited company, or acting as a company director, without the court's permission, whether formally appointed as a director or not.

UNQUOTE

There you have it. A company run by a man hospitalised with cancer (from their own reports), imprisoned for VAT and tax offences, running a company set up in the latter half of 2008, raking in a massive amount of money, based on a website that was 'half baked' in every sense, with scant regard to legal requirements and spelling, and payments reportedly going to an address shown to be where his bankrupt son lives.

This is a comic parody of a company no bank should touch with a bargepole.

GomerPyle

I think even the Mears family will have got to read this from the Sun today

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2091338.ece

QUOTE
Grotty grotto snubs refunds

THE boss of a fake festive “Lapland” forced to close after thousands of complaints is refusing to refund ripped-off families.

UNQUOTE

... and a photo of Henry Mears is included - probably not his best side.

If you read the comments, particularly those from locals, they are not well loved.

Visa card ? - chargeback

Credit Card ? - Section 75 claim

Cheque ? - what was the address you posted it to ?

codger

Sadly, Gomer, your goodwill-to-all-men could have wrong-footed you here, because everything about the Lapland New Forest venture suggests that those behind it would regard The Sun as too high-brow a newspaper ever to be worth bothering with.

There's also the fact that all newspapers, of whatever brow elevation, conspired together with the International Lapland New Forest Saboteurs Association to kill off the enterprise before it had barely begun, on which basis anything reported by any newspaper is but further evidence of a desire -- shared by everyone from the Barclay Twins to Rupert Murdoch -- to monopolise for themselves the field of entrepreneurial activity so expensively staked out by Mr Mears with his traffic cones and cardboard notices.

Even if Mr Mears has seen The Sun, I think he may perhaps be distracted by greater concerns, because if the Lapland episode is anything to go by, then the Lord only knows what the Global Media Conspiracy (in association with Saboteur Customers Incorporated) is about to do to his little fireworks shop and cafe businesses.

GomerPyle

The worrying thing is that an ex-con with no intelligence or wit can perform a crude scam and hoodwink the authorities and banks without any trouble, and then cause them to consult some higher authority to work out how they fell for it.

It's not difficult. Was it a scam ? You don't need Rumpole of the Bailey to work that out. A contributor on another page put it very clearly and succinctly.

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/lapland/3953729.LAPLAND_NEW_FOREST__ADVICE_FOR_CUSTOMERS/

QUOTE
The purpose of any scam is to attain a profit by deception.

How successful the scam turns out to be depends on how successful its authors are in insulating themselves from criminal prosecution.

To form an objective assessment of the Lapland New Forest affair, it is necessary to go to a web page which no longer exists.

It is, however, still extant in Google's online cache:

http://216.239.59.13
2/search?q=cache:jt3
y6AVyK_4J:laplandnew
forest.co.uk/shop/in
dex.php%3Fmain_page%
3Dconditions+Lapland
+New+Forest&hl=en&ct
=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk

This link has presumably been saved by local law enforcement and local Trading Standards.

If it hasn't, then it is reasonable to ask why not.

The text of the page in the above link was carefully and deliberately constructed. That the English language appears to have been used here by a person one Santa short of a full theme park is by-the-by. (As is its uncanny resemblance to the ludicrous verbosity of a "heart broken" representative of Lapland New Forest management in the aftermath of the "park" closure.)

What is relevant is the following (non-Santa) clause:

"Disclaimers
The images shown in our advertising campaign are for illustrative purpose entirely. The services provided on this Web Site and all materials including, animations, text, designs, images, illustrations, programs, banners, buttons, photographs, icons, information, files, and other materials that are part of this Web Site ( collectively, the "Content" ) could include inaccuracies, from defects, mistakes, interruptions, omissions, viruses, deletion of files, errors, whether or not resulting from acts of God. The Company's Web Site does not guarantee absolute accuracy, value, quality, completeness, usefulness, of any content, data, documents, graphics, images, information, advice, opinion contained in, reliability or frequency of any information made available. The Company will endeavor, but makes no commitment however, to update or maintain what is published or made available in this Web Site. Furthermore, we reserve the right to temporarily, or permanently, modify, alter, discontinue or delete the same without prior notice.
You must not rely upon opinions expressed at this Web Site when making business, financial, personal or other decisions."

Knowingly, therefore, the website was constructed with images designed to attract ticket purchases and secure considerable profits as a result.

Knowingly, therefore, the website was filled with images (such as snow-covered log cabins that were, in fact, garden sheds minus any snow) and promises /assurances whose actual authenticity was disclaimed from the outset in small print which, presumably, it was hoped would never be read.

No legitimate enterprise EVER constructs a website with small-print "exclusion clauses" as wide-ranging as this.

Nor does the Law allow it, otherwise anyone could advertise anything and then afterwards say, well, you know, we did disclaim any and all guarantees of truthfulness.

Lapland New Forest was a scam from beginning to end.

That it was so ludicrous of concept and organisation -- the website "get out" clause, far from insulating against criminality, actually goes towards proving criminal intent to deceive -- may be something for many of us to smile over, but is certainly no joke for those who fell victim.
UNQUOTE

This was not posted by me, though I could hardly put it better. Their bar room wannabe solicitor's only skill is in copy and paste, but has overperformed the task to such a gross extent that the disclaimer has the opposite effect to the one intended. It says that the images (not their own) may bear no relation to what is provided, and that they are not required to provide anything anyway.

On that basis, watch out for British Gomer Airways undercutting all UK airlines and putting them into liquidation shortly. The website will be a wonder, with pictures of the world's best planes, including Thunderbirds one through to five. Of course, I don't have to provide a thing, except a muddy field and a hut as departure lounge.

Maybe if this had been performed by a master criminal known for his skill, intellect and polished performance, people could gain some comfort, but this man has the aura of Arthur Mullard, the intellect of Bernard Bresslaw and has performed a cheap fairground scam as a multi million pound fraud and passed it thorough a bank who just waved him on.

It isn't people who are the mugs, it's the people we put in charge.

Even our scammers have no class.

codger

Oi!

Speaking on behalf of my old mate Bernie, can I ask that he be excluded from these proceedings??

Seriously though, he was a super bloke and is still much-missed.

GomerPyle

I refer to his comic personna and not the person himself, who was I am sure, above the behaviour of this erstwhile comedian, whose comic peformance is wholely unintentional.

In support of this contention I offer you this link to some advertising media I came across. Words fail me.

http://www.thamesvalleyguardian.co.uk/pdf/RTV%20536/0278-RTV-E01-S2-008-1201-CS.pdf