Lapland New Forest Scam. How to get money back...

codger

pancho_villa wrote: »

Hi Whitewing, have just spoken to Tesco Finance, and they say that as we went to the "attraction" we won't be getting a refund as everything advertised an the website was there, i.e advertised live animals, there were animals, Tunnel of light, there were lights etc. The only people that they are able to help are people that didn't go!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Pancho:

Two conclusions only can be drawn from this:

(1) Mr Mears owns Tesco

(2) The Tesco Finance representative you spoke to is a pompous self-regarding moron who thinks he / she is in charge of the Court of Appeal

Assuming the latter -- seeing as Tesco is unlikely to be running its entire operation out of Mr Mears' caff -- you need to contact your credit card company again to institute a charge-back.

The charge-back procedure applies where a purchaser pays for something, the specifications of which were materially changed by the seller between the date of purchase and the date of acquisition without the knowledge or consent of the purchaser.

Before going the chargeback route, however, you do need to be able to demonstrate evidence of that which you thought you were getting, as distinct from that which you actually did get.

Showing the latter is easy because Google still has plenty of material in its cache. So you need to bring up that material on screen and then screen-shot the image, ready for pasting into a Word document (or similar.)

You also need to copy and paste any on screen text issued by Dorset Trading Standards.

As to what you thought you were getting, you need to get original LNF material on-screen so as to screen-shot it for pasting into your document.

Rather than go any further with that aspect here though, could I ask that you contact me directly via a private message on MSE?

It should certainly be possible to help you but I would need to hear from you first via a pm.

Codger

codger

Whitewing:

Great heads-up on the Dorset statement and nice to see they're echoing what we said here several weeks ago -- and speaking of echoes, the newspaper from Bournemouth and Editor Neal Butterworth really are doing an outstanding job (perhaps Butterworth could be given The Shropshire Star to edit, too? Heck, he might even like to have you as the columnist with the op-ed opinion.);)

Gomer: hospital? Hospital? Gawd, wot're you doing???

Hope everything's OK, you have us worried here.

:eek:

whitewing

Thank you codger.

Gomer, you are being scarily quiet...hope you're okay.

Report in Portsmouth Today today:

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/Angry-Lapland-customers-get-short.4842179.jp

And the Southern Daily Echo:

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/4020578.More_than_5_000_seek____Blunderland____payouts/

Again, nothing we don't know already but good to see it being reported. I'm annoyed as we get the Times (mainly the Sunday Times) and I haven't seen them reporting recently on this subject that is close to my heart (being as it combines Christmas and children).
______________________________________________________________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=17633351#post17633351

whitewing

On the BBC website this evening:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/7812536.stm

______________________________________________________________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=17633351#post17633351

pancho_villa

codger wrote: »

Pancho:

Two conclusions only can be drawn from this:

(1) Mr Mears owns Tesco

(2) The Tesco Finance representative you spoke to is a pompous self-regarding moron who thinks he / she is in charge of the Court of Appeal

Assuming the latter -- seeing as Tesco is unlikely to be running its entire operation out of Mr Mears' caff -- you need to contact your credit card company again to institute a charge-back.

The charge-back procedure applies where a purchaser pays for something, the specifications of which were materially changed by the seller between the date of purchase and the date of acquisition without the knowledge or consent of the purchaser.

Before going the chargeback route, however, you do need to be able to demonstrate evidence of that which you thought you were getting, as distinct from that which you actually did get.

Showing the latter is easy because Google still has plenty of material in its cache. So you need to bring up that material on screen and then screen-shot the image, ready for pasting into a Word document (or similar.)

You also need to copy and paste any on screen text issued by Dorset Trading Standards.

As to what you thought you were getting, you need to get original LNF material on-screen so as to screen-shot it for pasting into your document.

Rather than go any further with that aspect here though, could I ask that you contact me directly via a private message on MSE?

It should certainly be possible to help you but I would need to hear from you first via a pm.

Codger

I am going to wait until I have it in writing, then I will take the next step. I won't leave this alone until all avenues are taken!!:eek:

codger

Whitewing: I guess the ST is a bit too national -- it's always a problem for a Sunday title anyway because that which gets scheduled on a Tuesday for research and reporting on a Wednesday and Thursday can then get thrown out because of lack of space on a Friday night / Saturday morning. Happens all the time.

The best hope, as usual, resides with a vigilant regional / local Press, and it has to be said that the Daily Echo, Bournemouth, is playing an exemplary role here: objective and perceptive in equal measure.

I hope Dorset TS has by now received all the legal advice it was seeking and that it is in position to make an announcement.

Obviously, these things take time but if Lapland New Forest Ltd goes belly up then customers who were scammed into parting with their money will have less chance than ever before of seeing it back: HM Revenue & Customs will want a sizeable chunk of the company's money, as will (presumably) contractors and suppliers to LNF.

RBS Streamline may well have frozen LNF's merchant account but I can't see that being sustained indefinitely.

As for Mears and whoever else is involved, it's pretty clear they've decided that as their own situation is beyond help, to hell with anyone else's situation.

No wonder then that the "company" is making no attempt to refund any customer, or communicate with any customer, and is instead allowing the LNF website refunds promise to be shown up as just another of the many Lapland lies.

EdnaCloud

I had an unexpected holiday at the government's expense in the local hospital but better now, so I'm catching up with the thread- still loads to read. No New Year's Eve drinkies though :-(

Sadly the naughty reindeer have not done anything to maintain the back-up information bognopper site whilst I've been incarcerated so I will get on with that so there will be a secondary repository for all the useful information, as it seems this one will run and run. Like certain South Coast fruit and veg merchants eh? In the meantime can anyone tell me, is the nickname 'Vic the Veg' a comment on business type or mental state?

Pancho - thanks for the PM, I will ack off line ASAP.

Edna Cloud, really! Still feeling the aneasthetic......

whitewing

Report on the ITV local news:

http://www.itvlocal.com/meridian/news/?void=275959

This includes some filmed footage of the attraction prior to the official opening, when a group of underprivileged children visited.

Worth a look/listen.

Also getting a mention on Fire Radio

http://www.fireradio.co.uk/news/151283.html
"Becky Silver went there and is still determined to get her money back: "I'm perfectly happy to keep fighting for the cause because I think it's absolutely ridiculous.

"I'm more than happy to keep fighting."

So are we, Becky Silver!


And published today in The Sun:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2099096.ece



As an aside, I can't find anything recent online about Lapland West Midlands. Does that mean everyone has been refunded? Or nobody bought tickets in the first place? Strangely quiet, what's going on?

Anyone heard from Gomer?

Welcome back Edna - was wondering where you were.

______________________________________________________________

ATTENTION PLEASE! Added mid-Jan 2009: Just as a reminder, the latest Lapland New Forest Refund Guide is here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?p=17633351#post17633351

GomerPyle

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/3/plastic-cards.htm[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

QUOTE
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There is no express contractual obligation imposed on a card issuer to exercise chargeback rights on behalf of an account-holder. However, industry acceptance of the custom of processing all disputed transactions as chargebacks, where a chargeback right exists, is so common that the ombudsman has determined that it is good practice to chargeback. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Therefore, our view is that if an account-holder disputes a transaction and chargeback rights exist under the relevant card scheme operating rules, the card issuer is required to: [/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Process all disputed transactions as chargebacks, where chargeback rights exist. [/FONT]
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Take care in exercising any chargeback right. This would include using the most appropriate reason code for the chargeback, so that the account- holder’s reasons are properly represented, and properly completing chargeback documentation under the relevant card scheme. [/FONT]
• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Satisfy itself that the response to the chargeback, given by the merchant acquirer, is a proper response to the situation. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is what the Australian Banking Industry Ombudsman said in his September 2000 bulletin. It is interesting to note that, independently, he has come to the same view as us. [/FONT]

UNQUOTE

The b"""""d is back , live and kicking.

If the Financial Ombudsman Service says you can do it (and they are part of the Finacial Services Authority who regulate card issuers, banks and other financial institutions), then there is no doubt in this matter. Clue them in. Teach them what they should know already.

Look further down that page

QUOTE
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We agreed that there was no contractual right. But chargeback was a matter of public knowledge and it was maladministration for the firm not to attempt one. We awarded Mr J compensation to cover the cost of the goods, plus his inconvenience in having to pursue the complaint to us. [/FONT]
UNQUOTE

If a card company does NOT peform a chargeback, there is the opportunity for you to claim on them, if necessary taking it to the FOS which costs you nothing.

Is there any doubt now ?

If any card company resists with some stupid reason there is a whole massive list of requirements that a company must satisfy to reject a chargeback. It's not just a matter of them coming up with some trite stupid refusal as we have seen. This is detailed on Streamline's own site here.

http://www.streamline.com/support/kb/moi/moi4503.html

Does anyone suppose LNF Ltd even keep records ? If they haven't supplied that, then they can't resist a claim so Streamline say.

This is an internationally reported scam of epic proportions arranged by an ex-con, previously imprisoned for tax and VAT offences, whose own website is an open admission of his inability to put on the event he offered.

Does any bank want links - or would just a link to this forum do ? :rotfl:

codger

Well that's a relief, then: I was beginning to think, forget Santa Clause, wot about Santa's Curse, seeing as how major contributors to this thread kept vanishing. . .

Welcome back, Edna: hopefully you're fully recovered and are not seeking to institute a charge-back against the area health authority?

Welcome back, too, to Gomer: I know you weren't absent for long but there's enough evidence to suggest those who created Lapland New Forest had to be on some kind of medication, without everyone here now rushing off out to get medication for themselves.

This thread needs fit, healthy, vigorous defenders of cats with antlers [shomething wrong shomewhere? Ed.]








Oh hell. I think I'm coming down with something myself now.