Incapacity Benefit

suelees1

I do know what you're saying believe me. It does seem unfair a lot of the time.


With the Welfare Reform Act big changes are afoot with the introduction of Employment Support Allowance (ESA). It replaces all incapacity beneifs for new claimants and that includes income support. The minutae is far too complex to go into in a post here but if you're interested here's a link for starters

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/welfarereform/incapacity.asp

There will always be problems with the benefit system. There have been those who've always abused it but on the other hand there are a hell of a lot who don't get what they're entitled to.

sospanfach1

I started this thread to find out if i could claim IB and i have opened a new world of benefits,because thats what it is.I,ve been amazed at all comments not only in this thread but others.What a complicated way to help people who have got into difficulties,and as you said sue a hell of a lot who dont get what they are entitled to, why is this,why dont people get what they are entitled.Is it lack of communication regarding social services,or people,s inabilty to get thru the minefield of benefit regulations

seven-day-weekend

sospanfach1 wrote: »

Carrying on from what scoot posted i now a few people who have,nt worked for over 20 years since the local steel works closed when maggie was in power nothing wrong with them still go to the pub,have sky tv and go to Benedorm once a year,what do they know that we dont

But is there any reason why someone with a sickness/disability shouldn't go to the pub, have Sky TV and go to Benidorm once a year? A|re they not allowed to have a life? Not all disabilities are visible.

MY husband claims Incapacity Benefit for a long-term mental health condition. I hasten to add he stayed at work for more than ten years after it was diagnosed, until it got so bad he couldn't carry on and took early retirement.

We then came to live in Spain (in 2004) and have been here ever since. He is allowed to claim IB in Spain as long as he still fulfils the criteria and is at this very moment under review.

There is no reason why people eligible for sickness/disability benefits should not have the things you mention, surely? It is not their fault they are ill!

I do appreciate that the point you are making is maybe the particular people you have mentioned were put on IB instead of Jobseekers' Allowance to keep the unemployment figures down after the steel works closed.

scootw1

suelees1 wrote: »

I do know what you're saying believe me. It does seem unfair a lot of the time.


With the Welfare Reform Act big changes are afoot with the introduction of Employment Support Allowance (ESA). It replaces all incapacity beneifs for new claimants and that includes income support. The minutae is far too complex to go into in a post here but if you're interested here's a link for starters

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/welfarereform/incapacity.asp

There will always be problems with the benefit system. There have been those who've always abused it but on the other hand there are a hell of a lot who don't get what they're entitled to.

the problem is, the changes are only for NEW cliamants. The ones already on the benefits don't get touched. there needs to be a thorough investigation of people already on benefits to find out who is claiming fraudulently

krisskross

scootw1 wrote: »

the problem is, the changes are only for NEW cliamants. The ones already on the benefits don't get touched. there needs to be a thorough investigation of people already on benefits to find out who is claiming fraudulently

I think they do their best to weed out dodgy claimants with medicals etc.
Trouble is there is so much information on boards like this on how to fill in the forms advantageously rather than completely truthfully, how to act at a medical etc.

If I had been of a mind to claim incapacity benefit I reckon I could make a good job of the form and of convincing my doctor.

scootw1

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

But is there any reason why someone with a sickness/disability shouldn't go to the pub, have Sky TV and go to Benidorm once a year? A|re they not allowed to have a life? Not all disabilities are visible.

MY husband claims Incapacity Benefit for a long-term mental health condition. I hasten to add he stayed at work for more than ten years after it was diagnosed, until it got so bad he couldn't carry on and took early retirement.

We then came to live in Spain (in 2004) and have been here ever since. He is allowed to claim IB in Spain as long as he still fulfils the criteria and is at this very moment under review.

There is no reason why people eligible for sickness/disability benefits should not have the things you mention, surely? It is not their fault they are ill!

I do appreciate that the point you are making is maybe the particular people you have mentioned were put on IB instead of Jobseekers' Allowance to keep the unemployment figures down after the steel works closed.

You are right to a certain extent. people on benefits shoul;d be able to have a life BUT Befefits are supposed to be there to enable a person to live comfortably, not extravagantly. Does this mean going to the pub every day (not much sign of disability there methinks) and having all the mod cons Only this morning, a guy on benefits where I live was walzting in at 12.10 midday drunk. I work full time and have never had a holiday abroad, don't have SKY, don't even have a car, can't afford one. a lot of people (not all) on benefits are living VERY comfortably thank you very much. It is about time that EVERYONE on benefits was re-evaluated properly (not just a GP wanting to get rid of their patient by signing their sick form) so that people like me, the average taxpayer, could stop propping up these people. Then,. and only then, can the people who deserve the money get it and those who don't deserve it get nothing

scootw1

krisskross wrote: »

I think they do their best to weed out dodgy claimants with medicals etc.
Trouble is there is so much information on boards like this on how to fill in the forms advantageously rather than completely truthfully, how to act at a medical etc.

If I had been of a mind to claim incapacity benefit I reckon I could make a good job of the form and of convincing my doctor.

A fundamental problem with our GPs then perhaps?

seven-day-weekend

scootw1 wrote: »

You are right to a certain extent. people on benefits shoul;d be able to have a life BUT Befefits are supposed to be there to enable a person to live comfortably, not extravagantly. Does this mean going to the pub every day (not much sign of disability there methinks) and having all the mod cons Only this morning, a guy on benefits where I live was walzting in at 12.10 midday drunk. I work full time and have never had a holiday abroad, don't have SKY, don't even have a car, can't afford one. a lot of people (not all) on benefits are living VERY comfortably thank you very much. It is about time that EVERYONE on benefits was re-evaluated properly (not just a GP wanting to get rid of their patient by signing their sick form) so that people like me, the average taxpayer, could stop propping up these people. Then,. and only then, can the people who deserve the money get it and those who don't deserve it get nothing

With the non means-tested benefits such as IB you can have as much other income as you like. You may have a spouse earning £100,000 a year! The only way IB is means-tested is if the recipient have an occupational pension of over £85 a week, when 50p in the £1 is deducted off every £1 over that amount. Spouse's income or any other income is not counted, neither are savings. An IB recipient can also do a certain amount of Permitted Work. Also, IB is taxable, my husband pays tax on his; it is deducted from his Teachers' Pension.

With DLA you can even work full-time and still receive it as it is to help with the extra cost of disability.

So yes, some people on sickness/disability benefits can afford a lavish lifestyle and still be taxpayers, it does not mean they are not sick or disabled.

moggylover

krisskross wrote: »

I think they do their best to weed out dodgy claimants with medicals etc.
Trouble is there is so much information on boards like this on how to fill in the forms advantageously rather than completely truthfully, how to act at a medical etc.

If I had been of a mind to claim incapacity benefit I reckon I could make a good job of the form and of convincing my doctor.

It is not so much that I do not agree with the above, BUT: the reason people give advice on HOW to fill in the forms is not to cheat - but to put the information in correctly. Four years ago I had to go to an appeal after my DLA had been refused, but none of my symptoms had become better (in fact some of them had become worse, and this was attested by my doctor and my specialist).

When I went to appeal - they asked me specifically about two things: the first was why did I only need help going out twice a week, was I okay the rest of the week! I replied no, I only go out twice a week, so that is the only time I need the help. They asked again if I could go out the rest of the week without help and I again replied no, I could not go out alone, but I had a taxi from the LEA to get my sons to and from school, and so the only times I had to leave the house was once a week for a big shop, and usually once more to draw some cash from the post office and pick up milk or bread if I was running low!

The second was why I could only get up steps once a week - to which I replied that I only HAD to go up steps once a week - to get out of the car park.

Now both my answers were honest.

However, the lady sitting on the tribunal banged down her pen, looked in disgust at the others on the committee (and the DSS representative) and said plainly that this was just as they had expected, the stupid forms again and what a waste of tax payers time it was taking the matter to tribunals instead of asking the questions correctly on the form.:eek: She then turned to me and said that DLA was paid to assist in living as normally as possible, and did I REALLY think that two outings a week was in any way normal?

I replied no, and I do sometimes get more help than that, but it asks for the help you NEED not the help you get, and I suppose it could be argued that I do not NEED help if the only reason might be to socialise.

Well, she asked, can you get up stairs six days a week without help - and I said not really, but I don't have to very often and some days I could get up them reasonably well.

Now I'm no dumbo - but I had not wanted to lie in my answers either, so I had put only the help I saw as NECESSARY in order to feed my kids and get them to school - and it was not until this tribunal that ANYONE ever pointed out that it was meant to cover more than this and SHOULD include some social outings if they were not possible alone, and help with things that would otherwise just not get done because they were not strictly necessary.

Not only did I leave the Tribunal with my DLA, but it was awarded at the higher care rate not the middle care rate after they had gone through all the questions with me, and revised my answers to what help I needed to live as normally as possible, not just to subsist.

So you see, it is not about lying on the forms, it is about the forms being worded to try to ensure that people do not get the allowances they are in need of (although they have changed these forms somewhat now they are still not really clear and still keep on about "help you need, not help you get").

I do realise that there are people who manage to "fool" the system in the other direction, but there are also a very large number of people who justifiably should be getting this benefit who do not because of the way the forms are phrased and the cumbersome (and for many quite exhausting and frightening) appeal system.

I dread to think what all the paperwork, office space, and time costs for each tribunal that comes from the tax payers pocket: but they are not uncommon and I understand from the CAB representative that helped me that the appeal success rate is high, and that basically it usually ends up that the refusal was for similar reasons as my own!

Oldernotwiser

moggylover wrote: »

It is not so much that I do not agree with the above, BUT: the reason people give advice on HOW to fill in the forms is not to cheat - but to put the information in correctly.

Unfortunately, information can be misused. For every genuine claimant who is helped to claim, there may be another non genuine person who uses the information fraudulently. I don't know the answer to this and I don't think anyone else does either.