Anyone else watching agricultural land prices?

ixwood

I disagree. land does not need to be managed at all. Who manages natural woodland? Mother nature only.

It may need managing to keep it in the unnatural state farmers or whoever have made it. Any untended land in this country will naturally revert to woodland over time. Sounds like a good thing to me!

The weeds start to heal the soil and provide whatever nutrients are missing and gradually the land is healed and woodland is established.

lostinrates

ixwood wrote: »

I disagree. land does not need to be managed at all. Who manages natural woodland? Mother nature only.

It may need managing to keep it in the unnatural state farmers or whoever have made it. Any untended land in this country will naturally revert to woodland over time. Sounds like a good thing to me!

The weeds start to heal the soil and provide whatever nutrients are missing and gradually the land is healed and woodland is established.

That's absolutely correct, overtime it would revert to woodland. Much british woodland though is managed - I have no idea of the amounts of managed versus unmanaged woodland in the UK...but most in my locality is managed, even if its 'soft touch' management. Unfortunaetly woodland is not a great environment for growing food - vegetable or animal. I totallyagree our landscape is created by man...and I would even suggest man is in parts doing a great job of destroying it a it it most of the 'natural' landscape in UK. Its a case of people versus the planet. I'd quite like the planet to win, but quite frankly, with the number of us, I don't like its chances. I think I am yet to see a view of British landscape not influenced by man. Sadly.

Davesnave

ixwood wrote: »

I disagree. land does not need to be managed at all. Who manages natural woodland? Mother nature only.

It may need managing to keep it in the unnatural state farmers or whoever have made it. Any untended land in this country will naturally revert to woodland over time. Sounds like a good thing to me!

The weeds start to heal the soil and provide whatever nutrients are missing and gradually the land is healed and woodland is established.

It is quite hard to find unmanaged natural woodland, but as LIR says, there are levels of intervention, and the species chosen makes a big difference too.

Being realistic, with the pressures man is putting on the planet, it is important to find the best ways to manage land rather than leave things to chance. I have it on good authority from the historians that some of the earliest civilzations had problems with their soils, just as we do today.

fc123

This is all fascinanting stuff...thanks for all the info ;-)...I'll look at fields in a different light now....and downsize the dream to an acre only and a pet sheep or 2.......sub everything else out.

lostinrates

fc123 wrote: »

This is all fascinanting stuff...thanks for all the info ;-)...I'll look at fields in a different light now....and downsize the dream to an acre only and a pet sheep or 2.......sub everything else out.

Don't be put off, just embrace it and get to grips with it.:o TBH, if you are dreaming it dream a few acres rather than one, and half a dozen sheep. Too little land is jut as hard, and sheep really will do better in a flock, even a small flock. Imagine if one of your got sick and the other was left a lone, heartbroken! (I do infact know people who keep ingle rams as pets and they seem happy, if demanding- its not for me though!) There are some wonderful easy to read books on grassland management and the beauty of land is never ending. I've just lugged out some forage to the dobbins....and ben looking at all there is to do with the hedgerows in the next few weeks and its exciting. And learning the right ways to manage different situations and to relish the difference in plants and the challenges this gives is wonderful too. In real old pasture (not modern single/few variety pasture) every inch i a story about what has happened there.:o Remind yourself nvr to go on a walk with me

fc123

LIR; Sorry to be nosy...but whose land do you work on at the mo? Family?

''When I am 50......'' this land business etc is deffo going into a possible plan...or a Bsc in Nurtition (always one to spot a gap in the market) but don't think the govt will have any ££££ left to pay me gigantic hourly rates to work on their ''Lets all solve obesity together'' programmes/schemes.

I'm up to speed on essential economic theory now (current hobby)...time for a new one. Agri land management/ how to run a small holding etc.

Thanks for the inspiration

GDB2222

I'm a city dweller and trying to get my head around this. Can somebody just fill me in if I have got this wrong:-

1. There are houses around that are set aside for agricultural workers, and these are *a lot* cheaper than understricted houses.

2. If you buy one of these and you are not an agricultural worker, what happens? Do they come and cut your balls off so that you'll be less trouble in the future? Or do you just get fined? Or turfed out?

3. If you have a bit of land with the house, you can become an agricultural worker? Does it matter how much land, whether you are farming it for profit, how much of your time you spend on it?

4. If you have a restricted house and you can't sell it, you can have the restriction removed? Too good to be true!

fc123

GDB2222 wrote: »

I'm a city dweller and trying to get my head around this. Can somebody just fill me in if I have got this wrong:-

1. There are houses around that are set aside for agricultural workers, and these are *a lot* cheaper than understricted houses.

2. If you buy one of these and you are not an agricultural worker, what happens? Do they come and cut your balls off so that you'll be less trouble in the future? Or do you just get fined? Or turfed out?

3. If you have a bit of land with the house, you can become an agricultural worker? Does it matter how much land, whether you are farming it for profit, how much of your time you spend on it?

4. If you have a restricted house and you can't sell it, you can have the restriction removed? Too good to be true!

As I have learnt in todays lesson I think following answers are;

1; yes. By a lot I think 30% less ???

2;seems to be the job of the tax office to determine whether a farm is being run as a farm...and making the owner a living from it....don't know what they do to you if they think you are scamming it.

3; i don't know WHO decides on the agri tie? If one bought small farm at full price....then they made it agri use only, it would drop in value straight away. I'm bit unclear on how this happens?

4; from daves tale of Monmouthshire...seems to be the case.

I await my test results. A+ or C-.;)

ETA; And an Uplift Clause can be attached to a property so if you buy it, add value/develop land etc and increase value, you have to give a percentage to the previous owner...LIR knows more about this..I just learnt from her...can you imagine that in suburbia!

fc123

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b008x3qn/b008x3cg/Savile_Row_Love_Thy_Neighbour/

Can I add this link to a prog last night on Savile Row tailors.....last part had a Harris Tweed weaver....soon there will only be 5 patterns produced.
Harris tweed is close to my heart as we exported tonnes of HT jackets (reclaimed waste) to Japan in the 90's recession....and bought our house from the proceeds.

Another dying craft and skill.

Davesnave

GDB2222 wrote: »

I'm a city dweller and trying to get my head around this. Can somebody just fill me in if I have got this wrong:-

1. There are houses around that are set aside for agricultural workers, and these are *a lot* cheaper than understricted houses.

2. If you buy one of these and you are not an agricultural worker, what happens? Do they come and cut your balls off so that you'll be less trouble in the future? Or do you just get fined? Or turfed out?

3. If you have a bit of land with the house, you can become an agricultural worker? Does it matter how much land, whether you are farming it for profit, how much of your time you spend on it?

4. If you have a restricted house and you can't sell it, you can have the restriction removed? Too good to be true!

1. Yes, there are ag-tied properties; not many in relation to whole market -maybe 0.1% or something, but then if you're looking only for property with land then % rises a lot. (Maybe 1:50, but I'm just guessing at this.) Weirdly, some don't have significant land:e.g. farm worker's houses (with 5 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms sometimes!)

2. If you buy and don't comply with the tie, the Local Authority can require you to leave. They have pretty drastic powers and they do get people out. I have known tied houses for sale because of non-compliance. If people retire from farming they can stay in their tied house though.

3.If you have land with your ordinary house, it doesn't make you a 'farmer' unless you decide to run as a business, claim working Tax Credits etc, when HMRC become involved. To get the working bit of Tax Credits you need to do a minimum of 16 hours a week, but it is pretty hard for anyone to check. I used to say I did 45 hours a week, but in winter it was a lot less, and in summer about 70.

4. If you advertise your ag-tied house through an agent, at a fair price, for around 18 months and cannot sell, you stand a chance of having the tie removed, but it's the Local Authority's call. It isn't too good to be true, because there can be quite a demand for these places in many areas from legitimate buyers.

5. For me, there's an extra problem, because I want to move areas. Most ties state 'in the locality,' so although I know a nice tied property for sale in Ceredigion, I can't buy it because I was previously fully employed in agriculture in Somerset, not in that locality. To comply I'd have to start my business up again, but it would be totally unviable in Ceredigion. Still tempted to do this though, as I have other income and I might be 65 by the time they got onto me!

6. Ties are funny things. I know of one where they forgot to put in the words 'in agriculture,' which meant anyone could buy it as long as they'd worked in the area, but if they'd been in agriculture elsewhere (i.e. me) they couldn't.
Ironic, as it was in the area where I grew up!

Hope that makes it a bit clearer. It is a pretty grey area and even the local authority people don't understand it well. I've been told I can't buy a particular property for some reason on one day, and my wife, phoning on another day to another planning officer, has had a completely different response. She's more persuasive than I am and, no doubt they do get loads of chancers.