Anyone else watching agricultural land prices?

lostinrates

Depending on the tie a few sheep can do it We are going whole hog though...er but not pig farming, lol.

Mail on Sunday Liz drives me furious, with her self obcession as much as anything else, She'd not be happy whatever happened to her. I can only hope that my guess that she simplifies somethings about the animals and land for the general readership is right.

fc123, there are a few local 'centre for lost skills' round here, but many lack your real expertise. Could be a real goer in the right location.

fc123

lostinrates wrote: »

Depending on the tie a few sheep can do it We are going whole hog though...er but not pig farming, lol.

Mail on Sunday Liz drives me furious, with her self obcession as much as anything else, She'd not be happy whatever happened to her. I can only hope that my guess that she simplifies somethings about the animals and land for the general readership is right.

fc123, there are a few local 'centre for lost skills' round here, but many lack your real expertise. Could be a real goer in the right location.

I know but it doesn't fit in with everyone else in the family right now.

I love reading Liz Jones...makes me feel so much better about things (because she has seems to 'Have it all'' and it's never enough)...the self obsession is unbelievable plus she gets paid to write about it (and a lot of ££ too) so she truly convinces me the world is mad about how peoples work is valued. And the horse has nappy cream, the rescue dog attacking lambs....I am guessing she creates a lot of local employment.:rolleyes:

I balk at running a tannery though. Look little children, this is how you make a handbag. shoots calf, skins calf, gets one I dried earlier and voila, a handbag. I think my summer visitir plan for revenue may falter at this.

Aquarium with shells, remove big shells, watch hermit crab get eaten as looks for a shell......and her is a pretty necklace.
Mmmmm idea needs finetuning.

Also OH not keem at all....looks like we'll have a mid life debate when the time comes. He asked who would supervise the animals and I said him....whilst I am wafting around London being fashiony. He not so keen...wants to sub the sheep out.

fc123

lostinrates wrote: »

Depending on the tie a few sheep can do it We are going whole hog though...er but not pig farming, lol. .

Are you going self sufficient or enough to sell on too? Are you near Riverford..I find his business model inspiring.

Davesnave

Our plan to go ag-tied failed back at the end of 2002 when the old mushroom farm we wanted was suddenly withdrawn from the market. At the time I thought this was God 'working in a mysterious way,' as just down the road was a similar business, being run by a lady who'd rescued it after the original owner was jailed for molesting young trainees. (You couldn't make this stuff up, could you?) However, she later went bust, so God was innocent, or perhaps ambivalent, because He didn't help either of us in the end.

We should've bought the next one, but I repeated my father's mistake, made 42 years before, by walking away because it was 'too good to be true.' The business Dad rejected is still prospering! Recent research on Nethouseprices shows that my 'too good' property was even better for the person who offered less than we were considering.

After that, prices seemed to go mad. All we could find at our level were Woolaway bungalows in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, my Dad, for whom I was slowly becoming carer, took a turn for the worse so, after an abortive attempt to buy 11 acres + a decentish bungalow in Somerset, we gave up. South Somerset Council were very unhelpful as regards that particular ag tie and its applicability to our plant nursery business. In fact, most of the Westcountry councils, with the exception of Devon, have treated us like some kind of second class rule-benders whenever we've approached them. Anything Westcountry, not nasty and without a tie, was generally out of our league.

So yes, I've kept an eye on land, which is still pretty cheap in Wales, judging by the fact that we considered something with 42 acres recently. Wasn't more than half of it of any quality though, and there's only peanuts in tacking-out for sheep. I'd like a bit of woodland attached , because you can use that to keep warm, and a personal water supply would be good as well.

On the basis that the English have kept moving west, we were more or less committed to Wales at the start of the year,envisaging a steady rise in prices as people become more peed off with city living. I'm still tempted to run a totally unsustainable nursery/smallholding there, either to use a cheap ag-tied property, or as a general tax dodge, bearing in mind that HMRC won't now be able to accuse me of hobby farming till I'm of retirement age. i.e. five years of losses. However, Wales has a few political hurdles and I notice un-trendy parts of Cornwall are becoming more reasonable.

So, undecided at the moment. Local food is the way forward, I think.

neverdespairgirl

fc123 wrote: »

is also an inspiration plus am addicted to Liz Jones Diary in You mag.

<vague memory>

is she the one who had a baby with her Indian other half, and doesn't like the fact that the baby's not white?

lostinrates

Don't think he had a baby NDG, and the indian other half is gone now....she has cats and horses and a dog instead.....and she's NOT me, lol.

fc123, we already have the chucks, and although we have balked at it something has to be done with little boy chickens . We are almost decided on two sheep over two goats for our first 'real' meat to plate option. (hitherto we have allowed neighbour ue of our tiny orchard in return for meat, very different). I'm a big fan of Temple Grandin's work re slaughter, and when I was a working scientist and before 'parts' were so hard had to spend a certain amount of time in abbatoirs looking for specimins for dissection...its not the death, or even the process so much as the personal betrayal I'm struggling with, and the drive there. But I strongly feel that eating meat has lost it sense of 'responsibility' despite the welfare drive on tv from great chefs. I feel a strong peronal need to resolve myself to this. On another note, cross grazing is an important part of my model system, so would consider letting the grass keep if my resolve should fail, but would rather do it my self and have some control and responsibilty for the welfare. I do not intend to produce anything to sell meat wise...neither the time nor the inclination to divert myself from the main project further than our freezer and grazing needs (DH rekons we'll end up with mixed herd of rescue cows I can't say goodbye to) but might more easily consider small scale omething with poultry. I'd like to never, ever buy anything with feathers, its so easily in our situation to provide a great life for them that anything less seems ridiculous.

neverdespairgirl

Wrong journalist!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-467787/I-love-mixed-race-baby--does-feel-alien.html
One reason for my fear is my own mixed reactions to my daughter. Don't get me wrong, I love her. She is the child I didn't think I'd have after my first marriage broke up. She is the only granddaughter in our family and we all dote on her.
But when I turn to the mirror in my bedroom to admire us together, I am shocked. She seems so alien. With her long, dark eyelashes and shiny, dark brown hair, she doesn't look anything like me.
I know that concentrating on how my daughter looks is shallow. She is a person in her own right, not an accessory to me. But still, I can't shake off the feeling of unease.

fc123

We should've bought the next one, but I repeated my father's mistake, made 42 years before, by walking away because it was 'too good to be true.' The business Dad rejected is still prospering! Recent research on Nethouseprices shows that my 'too good' property was even better for the person who offered less than we were considering.

Thing is you don't know it's too good to be true (or not) until some time later..but you probably made the right decision at the time.

Now I'm readin LIR about cross grazing etc I think I may be out of my depth!
+ Killing animals wasn't really in The Plan...but I guess it's part of the cycle.

Where do the feathers come from for ski jackets and pillows?

I think it's all a bit Escape London/ brighton wannabee at the moment...but the dream gets me up back to the grindstone each day.

When do you reckon you'll buy?

Seems wrong that buying a bit of land to live off is so expensive.

And sheep being worth pennies too.......we need a clothing/wool trend that restores UK sheep to being worth more than a chop...Aus got the ugg thing afterall thoug Newqauy had a sheepskin boot co too IIRC.

lostinrates

fc123, don't feel out of depth. Remember, my training is with land and animals, lol. I'd be lost if you were talking about darts and overlocking!

There is however, a great sadness, frustration and indeed ometimes anger from the land literate over some new landowners lack of knowledge. Land, as we know it in UK, is subect to a lot of management, even what we think of as 'wild'. Case in point, house in my village went to auction a few years ago with ITRO 40 ares grassland. Permanant pasture. Grass doesn't, much to many people's surprise, keep itself! In a very potted form, grazing or topping keeps the roots string, which holds the soil underneath it together. The guy who owns it has done inappropriate things with out planning, and has no interest in animal farming. The logical thing, for the land, would be for him to have hay/haylage/silage cut by letting the gras keep, but he entertains ideology of 'retuning in to the wild'. Now, British grassland is, well, not new, but certainly the result of much, much management and was never 'wild' (although would have had many different management practices of the millenia, and indeed, centuries, but letting it 'wild' particularly on this type of landscape, isn't really a suitable option. Neither is tree growing (hence he is locked in planning dispute over that....its not suitable due to his placement and local water issues) or lake making...although there are places that would have suited his needs wonderfully! Its knowing what is right and understanding the land, the locality etc etc. Generally, the type of farming and land based work is an indicator to the suitabilty of a plot. But land DOES need maintainance, and can suffer for a long time. (of course this enters a new debate about our influence on nature etc etc) but its not a matter of leave a clay soil field with the standard cattle grass down for a few years and you end up with acres of wildflowers. You tend to end up with sodden soil, too rich for most wild flowers and choked by the predominant heavier ryegrasses and nettles. Similarly, soft touch approach to hedgerows etc is uually pretty irresponsible of roadside boundaries and unpopular with neighbour...who will have stock even if you don't, and as they thin at the bottom, less great as the cretures that have made the dense, managed hedges their homes.

Sheep fleece makes a good insulator. Very very saddened by trips to county shows after a few years away, with alpaca exhibits vastly outnumbering sheep. They are lovely reatures I am sure, and I'm certainly not against their presence, inclusion for all those who are guardians of our countryside, but sad for the sheep farmers who probably struggle to afford to exhibit.



fc, I need to stay so that I can see DH reasonably at the weekends at least. I also need to be within reach of my client base. I'm guessing ultimately I'll be fairly tied to the A303 or M4 corridors. Which of course is expensive. ETA, sory, just re read and you said WHEN not where:o . Um, well, when we can I guess. In a more stable market we would have bought already, even though I know our debt level would have been 'difficult'. If you equate it to a horse, I don't mind getting on a fractious horse but I'm not going to try to mount when its just thrown someone and is still bucking! Alternatively, if thing really did turn around this week and we still felt priced out of the land purchase we would really need to make it long term viable then I guess we would rethink and come up with a less exciting more normal stay at home wife situation and I'd learn to live with it. On our paper plans we have 2010 down, but purely as a guideline. I personally feel its silly to set a date to see that things change and you close your eyes to them, or are still dramatically upheaved and you feel committed. Sometime after the end of this week and before I turn 35 I hope! Personally, I feel that unease will remain until next election, and that sometime after that, whatever the outcome, there lies oppertunity for a sense of aceptance. We have been waiting for an elected representative since Blair departed, and even Brownites might admit things feel a bit pro tempore. In many respects, while its heightened the mood in US the election is well timed to take America in to the next phase, where as we are still, somewhat, in a STR position politcally, living out of the boxes! I don't feel our timing is so depnedant on us but the situation.:o

lostinrates

Alo wanted to say hve noticed that what is changing, inreasingly, is people are not seeming to put on (at least not warning in adverts) the horrid uplift clauses. Uplift makes all the difference to me and so things are looking muh better if this really is the trend.