Asked for Dental NHS Scale and Polish.Told "Go to Hygienist at £25 extra"

welshdent

yup. They just scratch at the surface though. They have already decided what they want to present and make the "evidence" fit the story. Plus WADR the issue of making people see the hygienist on a private basis is frankly small fry compared to the rubbish that the DOH dishes out. I am not saying its not wrong to do that but given they pay zero to do root fillings to us and wont cover the costs of lab fees adequately yet expect us to provide it all with a small on our face. For many instances I really resent paying for other peoples dental neglect ... not the likes of yourself as I do believe fully in prevention. I am talking about those that just see me as a drop shop to rip out teeth and give them repeated dentures. Oh and they insist on having both sets cos they are entitled like. Its me paying for that not them of the NHS. Me. Comes out of my pocket. The PCTs and LHBs have toot much power too. Last week in the paper is reported that they have stripped a practice of their contract effective immediately on the basis of un proven allegations. A practice present for 40 years has been effectively stolen and all the private money invested over the years to build it up wasted. At least 3 dentists and numerous other staff redundant and yet they have NOT been accused of anything at all.

I just feel like I bang my head against a wall daily yet things come out like this and all of us are accused of all manner of things. Wholly inaccurate reports of "salaries" are banded about. Comments like oh off on another holiday again (day off for funeral) and all of you drive porsches (I drive a citroen). People are so utterly ignorant of the reality yet swallow these stories hook line and sinker. There is NOTHING tieing me to the NHS aside from a pension. I have no contract with my practice. I do so because I Want to. I never reject reasonable treatments and strive to provide the best I can within the restraints on me. Yet we are all greedy so and sos ripping off the NHS. Go figure.

welshdent

Pennylane wrote: »

Do they pay their National Insurance?

and therein lies the crux. Thats the answer churned out all the time against us. Why not address it to the people that made the system?? We were forced to "sign" up to the contract because we had no choice. Sign it or go private. What if we didnt what about those that can not access private dentistry? I am just trying to do my best every day. Please dont tar me with the brushes used against the few bad eggs.

If we go private we apparently only do so to rip others off. can we win anywhere??

welshdent

boozercruiser wrote: »

Hygienists deserve more of a mention now.........

Scenario....the NHS patient comes from the NHS Dentist after being referred to the Private Hygienist (Is this even ethical I ask myself) and says to the Hygienist

It IS ethical IF the patient wanted to see them. Why only today I had a patient in who always requests to see ours and decline my offer of an NHS scaling. Its down to personal choice. I never lie. I never say anything is unavailable on the NHS. I make options available and people are free to chose the one they want.

Dentistry is not like medicine is. It never has been.

I send patients to see our hygienist if her treatment is cheaper than the NHS option too. Again - choice.

welshdent

also penny you only quoted one part of my post. The other "rip my teeth out" often in my experience have not paid any NI either. Not all ... but a hell of a lot

Pennylane

welshdent wrote: »

also penny you only quoted one part of my post. The other "rip my teeth out" often in my experience have not paid any NI either. Not all ... but a hell of a lot

I'll have a look for that then!;) Just the bit about the overseas women having to walk 2 days to find someone to help them got my attention. (I'm taking it you DO mean a dentist)

boozercruiser

brook2jack wrote: »

Legally the responsibilty for diagnosis treatment planning and prescription is the dentists alone. Hygienists are directed by dentists. Please leave them alone this is about the NHS contract which has nothing to do with hygienists as they are under the direct supervision of dentists and have no rights or responsibilities under the NHS as they are not NHS performers.

Now then..how do I figure this one out?:( So Hygienists have nothing to do with the NHS contract (understood) but they are under the direct supervision of the NHS Dentist (understood) but are not NHS performers (understood), but they ARE taking NHS patients money who, albeit on a PRIVATE basis who SHOULD be being treated on the NHS. (understood).

This makes the Hygienist part of the problem and complicit in it. (understood).

You must admit that it is a lovely little set up which suits both the Dentist AND the Hygienist. I bet it doesnt suit the NHS patient too often though.

In any case...and excuse me if |I am wrong...but are you not the Dentist who is Married to a Hygienist. If you are...then I understand.

Then if you are not...then I still understand.:)

welshdent

Pennylane wrote: »

I'll have a look for that then!;) Just the bit about the overseas women having to walk 2 days to find someone to help them got my attention. (I'm taking it you DO mean a dentist)

yep. I was at the BDA conference last week and believe me some of the lectures I saw were extremely humbling. Some excellent aid organisations out there by the way folks. Incidentally that woman that walked 2 days was not able to be treated when she got there!

brook2jack

I'm on a internet forum, I could be 16 year old in school or a 84 year old Albanian goat herder. Or I could be a dentist who withdrew from the most part from NHS dentistry in 2006 trying to put a balanced view that's actually factually accurate.

This discussion is nothing to do with a witch hunt against hygienists who are highly trained members of a profession going back decades. Unfortunately ,like many other treatment options eg implants, the NHS does not pay enough to use their services. It is one of the reasons I left the NHS because I feel my patients health is benefited by seeing a hygienist at least twice a year.

The point was hygienists have nothing to defend against as it is the dentist who is ultimately responsible for treatment planning a patient and who is supposed to have the discussion about what treatment people want to choose and the various NHS vs private options and gaining consent for NHS or private options.

I have no personal interest in this debate except to try to correct the general publics and medias many misapprehensions about dentistry.

welshdent

booze you have misunderstood a few points.

They are not under the supervision of an NHS dentist. They work to the prescription of a dentist. There are no NHS dentists in general practice. We are all private we just do contractual work for the NHS following the laid out regulations.

In order to receive treatment, NHS or otherwise; there must be a need for it therefore there must be a diagnosis. Legally a hygienist can not diagnose therefore can not treatment plan therefore can not carry out treatments on demand/request. Its not a stitch up its all part of GDC regs to protect the public.

The NHS only employs hygienists in hospital and community and they are usually the same as dentists in general practice - independent. They MAY be employed by the practice or they may work sessionally and paid for work done at an agreed fee scale. Depends on the arrangements.

They simply carry out treatment that is planned by the dentist. Now we arent going back over the whole BPE, gum disease, staining arguement but thats what it would come down to certainly in my hands. I write on the card - pt to see hygienist for X treatment.

brook2jack

welshdent wrote: »

yep. I was at the BDA conference last week and believe me some of the lectures I saw were extremely humbling. Some excellent aid organisations out there by the way folks. Incidentally that woman that walked 2 days was not able to be treated when she got there!

Try volunteering for bridge2aid or one of the other organisations. It really refreshes your enthusiasm and reminds you yes you are doing good. The downside is as an associate you will have to save for a long time time to afford the donation to go (£2000 ish) but it gives you something really worthwhile to look forward to. The interview is interesting!

There is a legacy element too as you train dental aides to do simple extractions etc so there is some expertise left behind.
Mercyships also do similar jobs but for a longer time comittment and there is a Christian element.

Alternatively contact your nearest Chernobyl childrens link (may be ?Telford) the kids that come over have often not seen a dentist or had treatment without la and links are always grateful for help in providing dental treatment. Kids are as good as gold though not surprisingly terrified.