Asked for Dental NHS Scale and Polish.Told "Go to Hygienist at £25 extra"

Pennylane

boozercruiser wrote: »

Hello Guys. All quiet on the Western Front!....BUT...I see on Cannel Four tomorrow night (Monday 23rd May) there is a program at 8.00PM I thought you might be interested in...(As printed from prog. guide)

Despatches: THE TRUTH ABOUT YOUR DENTIST. An investigation into how some practitioners allegedly mislead patients about their rights to NHS treatment, and the potential neglect of childrens teeth by outsoursing lab work. (repeated on Thursday at 3.30AM).

Should be interesting.

I came on here today because I've just been reading about the prog tonight. The newspaper piece I've just been reading quotes patients entitled to an NHS Scale & Polish for £16.50 being quoted prices to go private. Which is what people on here have been complaining about for ages.;)

I had to take an elderly lady to her dentists the other day and a man was in deep argument with the receptionist about having to pay private for S & P. There's a lot of us about.

Will be watching with interest.

boozercruiser

Pennylane wrote: »

I came on here today because I've just been reading about the prog tonight. The newspaper piece I've just been reading quotes patients entitled to an NHS Scale & Polish for £16.50 being quoted prices to go private. Which is what people on here have been complaining about for ages.;)

I had to take an elderly lady to her dentists the other day and a man was in deep argument with the receptionist about having to pay private for S & P. There's a lot of us about.

Will be watching with interest.

Yes...and I will also be watching with interest.

This particular SCAM is obviously going on all over the country possibly many hundreds of times every single day of the working week.

It still makes my blood boil that people are being ripped off with extra charges for Dental Treatment that should be being carried out by the Dentist even if NEEDED by the patient because he/she has Gum Disease.:mad:

We all know about the benefits culture where too many people are getting them who also rip off the system. However, there are lots of genuine poor people who are just about getting by on benefits like income support/pension credit etc. who are entitled to FREE NHS Dental Treatment.

Yet from previous inputers here it is pretty obvious that far too many are forced to pay a PRIVATE FEE of between £28 and £50:eek: to have work they NEED being done by the Hygienist instead of this lazy rip off practice should be ashamed of himself/herself Dentist.:mad:

The thing is......they KNOW that they are conning the public and yet continue to do it. How on earth some of them can sleep at night I don't know.:mad:

I have of course said this rant many times in different ways over the past around 30 months. However....if someone makes a new post on this subject for whatever reason then it goes to the top of the Forum Posts. Then perhaps some more people see it and the post might save them some money. After all, this IS what this Forum is all about.:D

It need to also be remembered that thousands of people have and will continue (35,821 views and 722 posts to date) to look at this post, inwardly digest and just go away without posting a word.

Being an NHS Dental Patient I confess that I have a vested interest in promoting my point of view on this.....but of course I am also up against some vested interest here.;)

However this comment on the Dispatches web page has got it about right....

"As our Dispatches investigation shows, the rottenness in NHS dentistry is going to be very difficult to remove."

boozercruiser

In todays (23rd May 2011) Dail Mail.......Blimey..............I could have written this myself!.............

Dentists 'don't let on about cheap NHS care'


By Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 9:07 AM on 23rd May 2011

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Dentists are overcharging patients and not informing them about NHS treatment to which they are entitled, an undercover investigation has found.
The three-month probe found some dentists are pressurising patients to go private – even though they could get the same treatment far more cheaply on the NHS.
In one case, a patient was given a quote for root canal work which was almost four times the non-private cost.

Overcharging: Some dentists are pressurising patients to go private - even though they could get cheaper treatment on the NHS

The shocking findings were made by Channel 4’s Dispatches team. They sent seven members of the public for an NHS check-up at surgeries which offer both NHS and private treatment.
After an average of 15 minutes in the chair, six out of seven came out having been recommended to have some treatment privately – mainly hygiene work.
Instead of getting an NHS-standard scale and polish for £16.50, they were quoted prices to go private.


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Another visited three surgeries, seeking root canal treatment which should cost £198 on the NHS. Instead, he was quoted private rates of £678, £598 and £725.
Dr Anthony Halperin, a dentist and member of the Patients Association, said: ‘I’m very concerned that they all seem to have suggestions of having private treatment.
‘If the patients go in as NHS patients and are told work is not available under the NHS which is available under the NHS, then the dentists are in breach of their contract.’ The Coalition plans to renegotiate Labour’s 2006 dentistry deal.
The Truth About Your Dentist will be broadcast on Channel 4 at 8pm tonight.


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Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1389876/Dentists-dont-let-cheap-NHS-care-undercover-investigation-finds.html#ixzz1NAmYN8t9

boozercruiser

The Truth About Your Dentist

Features


Wednesday 18 May 2011
Health Editor, The Times - Sam Lister
Related Dispatches: The Truth About Your Dentist
Going to see the dentist may fill some people with trepidation, but in NHS dentistry there's more than the odd drill to cause concern. During a three-month investigation, we uncovered evidence of a system that often prevents the patient from getting the right treatment at the right price.
We sent reporters undercover to identify common ways in which dentists 'game' the system, while professionals themselves also blow the whistle on concerns about how NHS dentistry has become less about the promotion of oral health and more about the pressures of time, money and an unworkable Government contract.
Reforms brought in five years ago were meant to improve dental health and access to dentistry. They were meant to make life more straightforward for dentists and patients, turning a fee-per-item system into one with three bands of treatment, and three rates for the patient to pay. But while the changes have increased the number of people seeing an NHS dentist, in many instances they have had damaging repercussions. Some dentists have found themselves unable to give up the time for the procedures their patients need, and out of pocket if they try. For some it is now simply a question of working a flawed system as best they can, but as experts and insiders show, the fundamentals of good NHS care and full disclosure are being badly compromised.
Our reporter needed a root canal treatment for an infected molar tooth, one of the most common procedures on the NHS. Despite checking in as an NHS patient, he was encouraged to go privately wherever he went - with dentists waiting until he was in the operating chair before advising that the only option for safe and successful care was to pay far more than the NHS rate. Others warned that going on the NHS would be impossible unless a patient was referred to hospital, or if they went for the extreme fix of having the tooth extracted. None were clear about the prices that our patient should have been paying.
We also visited dental laboratory workers – those responsible for creating the dentures and other dental fittings - who reported how the care of patients is now being compromised by cost cutting. Unregistered laboratory work imported from abroad, for a fraction of the market price, is becoming ever more attractive. But as our programme shows, the safety of such products is, at best, unknown.
The financial pressures show no sign of abating. The ring-fence protecting the dentistry budget was removed in March, and dentists warned that the temptation for health trusts to dip into the dentistry budget will be getting ever stronger. The Government has promised another set of reforms to ensure the quality of dental care – and the outcome for a patient – is what's rewarded. But many fear that with dentistry as hard pressed as it is, little if anything will change. As our Dispatches investigation shows, the rottenness in NHS dentistry is going to be very difficult to remove.


26 Comments

welshdent

Honestly when I see all these biased stories in the paper it just makes me more determined to get out of it all together. Damned if you do damned if you dont. I know thats not the point of your posts BC but seriously. When you do it day in day out and see first hand the ridiculous system we are faced with yet stories like this are designed to paint us in as bad a light as poss I am sure most would just say stuff it.

I was in manchester on the BDA conference last week and going to the over seas aid lectures it really hammers home how badly some in the world really do have it. Women having to walk for 2 days to see someone to help them for example. We get people moaning that they cant be seen that second yet have voluntarily chosen to avoid a dentist for 20 years. My breaking point has passed and I am actively working on getting me out of it

boozercruiser

Welshdent "Honestly when I see all these biased stories in the paper". I don't know about that Welshdent...I mean the articles may be biased from you as a respectable Dentists point of view, but that may not mean that the article IS ABSOLUTELY biased. Ultimately weather something is biased or not is being decided by ones experiences to do with whatever.

For instance, I try not to be, but I can easily be accused of being biased against the whole NHS Dentist set up as it is now. In that case I would probably plead Guilty as charged!

For what it is worth Welshdent I am really sorry to here such unhappiness from your good self in respect of you work as an NHS Dentist. This isn't good for you or us patients as I guess you are only expressing what many Dentists feel right now.

Pennylane

welshdent wrote: »

Honestly when I see all these biased stories in the paper it just makes me more determined to get out of it all together. Damned if you do damned if you dont. I know thats not the point of your posts BC but seriously. When you do it day in day out and see first hand the ridiculous system we are faced with yet stories like this are designed to paint us in as bad a light as poss I am sure most would just say stuff it.

I was in manchester on the BDA conference last week and going to the over seas aid lectures it really hammers home how badly some in the world really do have it. Women having to walk for 2 days to see someone to help them for example. We get people moaning that they cant be seen that second yet have voluntarily chosen to avoid a dentist for 20 years. My breaking point has passed and I am actively working on getting me out of it

Do they pay their National Insurance?

There are thousands and thousands of people who have visited their dentist regularly all their lives. (Despite your example of only going once in 20 years).

They pay their National Insurance and they take care to look after their teeth. All we ask is to be treated in a courteous and professional manner, to have things explained to us and to come away feeling more comfortable than when we went in. We don't mind paying NHS charges (which can run into the hundreds) but we don't like being ripped off.

Sorry you're feeling low but it's the same in most jobs these days. At least you have someone to clean your workplace, someone to answer your phone calls and type your letters etc. You probably work nice sociable hours and don't get people ringing you at home in the evening and weekends. Could be a lot worse!

boozercruiser

Thinking more about this and me going on about how I think that too many Dentists are not carrying out there NHS Contract as they should.

Hygienists deserve more of a mention now.........

Scenario....the NHS patient comes from the NHS Dentist after being referred to the Private Hygienist (Is this even ethical I ask myself) and says to the Hygienist

"Good morning, my Dentist has referred me to you because he says I have some gum disease".

I just wonder how many Hygienists look into that persons mouth and thinks...............

"Well nice one.....the Dentist COULD and SHOULD v done this Scale and Polish under the NHS, but HEY...lubbly jubbly...a few more quid in the bank for me!"

This of course makes the Hygienist complicit in the shafting of the patient, which is reprehensible and is another person in the food chain with absolutely no concience!

I am not including in this the Hygienist who is doing just normal Hygiene work on someone who likes and wants regardless of cost to go to see the Hygienist simply because they want lovely pearly well cared for teeth which is arguably the best way for most of us to go anyway.

So long as one can afford it of course.

Would any Hygienists care to comment then?

boozercruiser

Pennylane wrote: »

Do they pay their National Insurance?

There are thousands and thousands of people who have visited their dentist regularly all their lives. (Despite your example of only going once in 20 years).

They pay their National Insurance and they take care to look after their teeth. All we ask is to be treated in a courteous and professional manner, to have things explained to us and to come away feeling more comfortable than when we went in. We don't mind paying NHS charges (which can run into the hundreds) but we don't like being ripped off.

Sorry you're feeling low but it's the same in most jobs these days. At least you have someone to clean your workplace, someone to answer your phone calls and type your letters etc. You probably work nice sociable hours and don't get people ringing you at home in the evening and weekends. Could be a lot worse!

Nice one Pennylane:T I could not have put it better myself.:D

brook2jack

Legally the responsibilty for diagnosis treatment planning and prescription is the dentists alone. Hygienists are directed by dentists. Please leave them alone this is about the NHS contract which has nothing to do with hygienists as they are under the direct supervision of dentists and have no rights or responsibilities under the NHS as they are not NHS performers.