Asked for Dental NHS Scale and Polish.Told "Go to Hygienist at £25 extra"

welshdent

I really do think a lot of people would be very surprised if they actually knew the reality of dentists earnings. I am not for a second claiming I am going hungry or on the bread line ... but the figures seen quoted and many of the accusations thrown are not founded in any reality that I recognise. Really saddens me when I see some peoples views (not by any main contributors here I hasten to add) ... they are clouded by swallowing whole misinformation.

coldstreamalways

Roz, that's similar to saying my garage only change my car tyres when they need it and they never give me free fitting. Why would they treat gum disease if you didn't have any and why would they do things for free?? It's a business, not a charity.

boozercruiser

coldstreamalways wrote: »

Roz, that's similar to saying my garage only change my car tyres when they need it and they never give me free fitting. Why would they treat gum disease if you didn't have any and why would they do things for free?? It's a business, not a charity.

Hello coldstreamways. I have learned enough here now to know that if there is no gum disease then a Scale and Polish is not clinically necessary and therefore can be refused.
In that event the patient should not be being advised to go to a Hygienist, unless advised that it is for purely cosmetic and

"it would help the general well being of your teeth and gums"
(which I accept).

Could you please tell me exactly where the 'Free' comes from?

I take it that you would be paid for treatment by the Patient, and then you would be paid by the Government as per your contract?

Actually Charities nowadays are run as a business....AND a lot get substantial funds from the Government.

But then...perhaps I misunderstand you?:o

This has been known.:D

welshdent

boozercruiser wrote: »

I take it that you would be paid for treatment by the Patient, and then you would be paid by the Government as per your contract?

Not quite BC. the charge paid by the patient is more of a tax than anything. The contract is based on a reference period before the new arrangements came in to play. a 12 month period was set and basically all work carried out in that time was converted to banding and UDAs. i.e the work was looked at and applied to the proposed arrangements to align you with a numerical value based on a certain amount of activity. The practice was told it would be awarded a contract of the gross income the practice generated based on the amount of UDAs that was equivalent to.

problems are if you did not work for any period of time due to illness, maternity or even were just not employed in that practice no allowance was paid to this. A mate of mine worked for 3 months in their place and the powers that be only allocated 3 months funding which they expected to last for 12. My old boss was on maternity leave and she was hammered for it. They refused to give any extra allowance but expected her to see 12 months worth of patients on 7 months worth of funding.

another problem ... if you provided a lot of lab based items that would artificially inflate the UDA value compared to someone in an area that patients were generally well maintained that would have given a lower individual UDA value. The consequence is that NOW a few years down the line an NHS check up may be worth £40 (Gross not net) in some practices and £18 in another. If you employ a hygienist, that £18 is meant to cover an entire band 1. Costs without the hygienist are around 50 - 60% .. the hygienist in our place charges £10 per treatment to the dentist. See where the problem is?? We have ZERO control over the UDA value. Itr was allocated and we took it or left it. It pays no attention to areas of need or anything else. Purely based on activity in that 12 months.

The total contract value is divided in to 12 and the practice is paid 12 monthly installments directly. The powers that be then monitor the UDAs completed and tick them off against the total required. Patient charge revenue goes to the LHB/PCT. I believe they knock total gathered off the monthly allocation and as such pay the practice less according to the amount generated. The charge bears no resemblance to the tratment carried out it is just a tax. If you fail to hit your target to within 95% they claw back the money paid. If you hit 95% they expect any shortfall to be made up in the following year. If you go over they say thank you very much for the free work ... oh we will be taking the patients charge money off you too ... so work not just for free but actually give them money!

boozercruiser

Welshdent "oh we will be taking the patients charge money off you too ... so work not just for free but actually give them money!"

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to explain this to someone you may or may not be getting a bit issed off with by now:eek:

Who would want to be a Dentist? ....what with the Government messing you about in respect of Contract terms, (more still to come, I guess) Whinging Patients like me:eek: and looking at and working on peoples teeth.

You are to be respected and admired:A (honest...I mean that).

Best regards to all Dentists and Hygienists:D

Boozercruiser.

stagey_2

thanks welshdent - have looked at the nhs bands and it would have been charged under band 2 or 3 - front molar white filling - the filling fell out around 3 months in, my son had a quick appointment but it was a relief dentist who said he would have to pay - he queried and agreed to see his own dentist about it. In the meantime the 2nd filling also came out with in a few days!! - his own dentist has now taken a look and is saying that because he will have to drill a little more of the tooth away he so will have to pay - it seem wrong some how. We don't want to fall out with our NHS dentist but my son is on a low income (tho not entitled to benefits). He is seeing him on Friday to get the tooth filled again so will try speaking to him about it once more - I wonder if the the dentist understands all the anomalies to do with charges himself. Also since he has taken over this surgery a few years now, a hygenist is our only method of scaling etc also.

thanks

Billieblob

boozercruiser wrote: »

Welshdent "oh we will be taking the patients charge money off you too ... so work not just for free but actually give them money!"

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to explain this to someone you may or may not be getting a bit issed off with by now:eek:

Who would want to be a Dentist? ....what with the Government messing you about in respect of Contract terms, (more still to come, I guess) Whinging Patients like me:eek: and looking at and working on peoples teeth.

You are to be respected and admired:A (honest...I mean that).

Best regards to all Dentists and Hygienists:D

Boozercruiser.

Dear Boozcruiser,

I have followed this post with interest and have been very impressed with the way you have 'listened' to the other dental contributors and how that has influenced your current attititude towards the dental profession.

I am obviously a newbie to this forum, but have been a practising dentist for 20 years.

The main problem to me with dentistry in the UK today is not the dentists per se, nor the NHS, nor even private dentistry, but how the three interact and what the patients' expectations are.

I do feel that if a dentist feels obliged to mislead patients regarding their charges then the dentist is abusing their position of trust and possibly commiting fraud.
If a dentist is unable to provide the level of care they wish to on the NHS without feeling the need to supplement their income so, then they should leave the NHS.
If a dentist charges exorbitant fees for private treatment simply because they think the patient will pay it, then they are again abusing trust and acting immorally.

The provision of dental care can range from background level care, to full-on high tech CAD/CAM full mouth reconstruction. It is for the individual patient to decide what level of care suits them and put a value on that.

There are upwards of 30,000 dentists in this country, surely it's possible for most people to find one they like and trust?

boozercruiser

Billieblob wrote: »

Dear Boozcruiser,

I have followed this post with interest and have been very impressed with the way you have 'listened' to the other dental contributors and how that has influenced your current attititude towards the dental profession.

I am obviously a newbie to this forum, but have been a practising dentist for 20 years.

The main problem to me with dentistry in the UK today is not the dentists per se, nor the NHS, nor even private dentistry, but how the three interact and what the patients' expectations are.

I do feel that if a dentist feels obliged to mislead patients regarding their charges then the dentist is abusing their position of trust and possibly commiting fraud.
If a dentist is unable to provide the level of care they wish to on the NHS without feeling the need to supplement their income so, then they should leave the NHS.
If a dentist charges exorbitant fees for private treatment simply because they think the patient will pay it, then they are again abusing trust and acting immorally.

The provision of dental care can range from background level care, to full-on high tech CAD/CAM full mouth reconstruction. It is for the individual patient to decide what level of care suits them and put a value on that.

There are upwards of 30,000 dentists in this country, surely it's possible for most people to find one they like and trust?

Hi Billieblob and thank you for your input, particularly the kind compliments that you pay me.:D

There is no way I could have summed up my feelings better than you in respect of how I as a patient would hope for things to be from my Dentist.:T

I can add no more for a change....except:eek: you say....

"I have followed this post with interest"........

makes me wonder exactly how many other people are doing just that quietly without actually adding to the 'debate'.

For my part, I came her for (1) help and to (2) help (if you see what I mean!) and as far as I am concerned I got the first, and hope that I managed the second also.:D

Best Regards

Boozercruiser.....(Kenny Thain.:D

boozercruiser

As already mentioned, my Dentist here in Wales prescribed me a box of two 75m of Duraphat 2800ppm Fluoride Toothpaste and Prescriptions here in Wales are free. I am a Pensioner so I would get prescriptions free anyway.

I went to see my Doctor only last week and said...............

"My Dentist has prescribed me Duraphat because I have some Gum Disease and I have sensative teeth. Is it possible for you to prescribe it for me on a regular basis so I don't have to keep going back to the Dentist"?

Wallah! my Doctor gave me a prescription for two tubes of Duraphat 2800 there and then which I got from the Doctors own Health Center Pharmacy AND he put me on repeat prescription to request AS NEEDED.

I now have the cleanest Scaled and Polished teeth to go with the freshest breath in the whole of Wales!:j:rotfl:

I have found this Toothpaste lovely to use though. Pleasant taste and I am finding that my teeth are not as sensitive to cold water as before. I don't swill my mouth out (just a good old spit) for half an hour after cleaning as reckommended in the pack. Perhaps it leaves a little film on the teeth to give extra protection?

I don't know......but this Toothpaste works for me.

noogle_2

Hello. I have a similar problem, although the stakes are higher. I recently visited the dentist [for the first time in a LONG time] who told me that I have gingivitis, a couple fillings needed and a sealing(?). He said I would need probably two visits to the hygenist to get my teeth cleaned.
Anyway, I'm a student and I registered as an NHS patient, but my quote given comes to £155.60. That breaks down to:
NHS band two for everything - £45.60
2 Hygiene @ £55 each

The receptionist mumbled something about them not offering it on the NHS, but I am not sure if she meant the service at all, or the service to me.

I will return and contest it, the dentist said I needed it after all, but is an NHS scale and polish considered the same as a private hygiene appointment, or do they involve different things (since they've different names).

Thanks for any help.