Asked for Dental NHS Scale and Polish.Told "Go to Hygienist at £25 extra"

brook2jack

PS BC is the "very good private dentist" you speak of the one who returned to Machynlleth four years ago and the LHB wouldn't give them a NHS dental contract despite there being a shortage of NHS dentists? Try investigating the LHB accounts and you will see that they are in the red and therefore there is a policy of handing out no new NHS contracts and moreover when a dentist retires or sells their practice their contract will not be passed on. Interesting when in Wales the majority of NHS dentists are over 50!

boozercruiser

brook2jack wrote: »

The elephant in the room here is the treatment that is necessary to secure dental health that is "provided" by the LHB/PCT and not general dentists.

Take a look BC at how long the waiting lists are in your area for a child with abcesses who needs a general anaesthetic for extractions.

Take a look at what your local LHB thinks is appropriate for emergency dental cover on evenings and weekends ... clue "dental pain ,no matter how severe is not an emergency".

Take a look at the waiting lists for wisdom teeth extraction etc

Take a look at the provision of specialist referral services to provide treatment out of the remit of general dentists.

Take a look at the virtual disappearence of domicillary visits ie dental visits to people in their own homes who cannot get to a surgery.

Now look up the local LDC (local dental committee),general practice committee,etc,etc which consists of local dentists who sit on numerous NHS committees, spend hours of their time fighting for what any rational human being would call essential services that at the moment are non existent or have massive waiting lists.

Both you with your complaint about scaling and polishing , and local dentists trying to get the LHB to fund essential services are vying for media attention. Which one will succeed " grasping dentists conning patients" or "health board rationing dental care"?


Finally.... for goodness sake BC, why why why why continue to see a dentist you don't trust wait a few months and then say after treatment ends you will go to the media. It's not a trusting relationship and are you not intending to return for a few years? If so all the fuss about your scale and polish is somewhat negated. If you are intending to return why wait for your expose? You must know the biggest factor in your dental health is not whether you have a scale and polish but whether you have a dentist you trust and whose advice you follow. Treatment must be harrowing both for you and your dentist at the moment.

Now then, Brook2jack, I would appreciate it if you can point me in the direction of all the other Dentists I can turn to here in Wales because on a one and only consultation I was not happy with the way I was treated at that first consultation?
At that time there was not an NHS Dentist here in Machynlleth, and though there now is......he still comes under Denticare, and even so I would have to start the check up procedure again.

Regarding timing of my trying to bring the 'Scale and Polish' V 'Hygenist for around £30' issue to the Media. When I went for my check up and SHE said "You have some gum disease, you should see the Hygenist for £28" and I said "No, I expect my treatment for that to be done inside my charge band" she did not answer. SO, I do not yet know how that situation will be resolved until January 2011 when I have 2 fillings and an extraction to be done. The experience of that will help in my approach to the Media.

My fillings and extraction may go swimmingly in a very nice friendly way and then she may say "Now I do a very nice Scale and Polish to try and help with that gum disease of yours"!

Then she could knock me over with a tooth brush.

We all get our eye wiped sometime in our lives!

When I go into that room for my treatment of course it will feel a little awkward. After all, the Practice Manager has told me that the Dentist has been shown my E. Mail expressing some unhappiness about how my check up went.

"You must know the biggest factor in your dental health is not whether you have a scale and polish but whether you have a dentist you trust and whose advice you follow".

Yes...that is the boat I am now in....I have no other easy choice right now.....and I will get on with it.

Keep in mind that even though I am now 68 I have NEVER had any issues with any Doctor or Dentist untill I came across the Denticare situation here in Wales 6 years ago. I have visited 6 Dentists under them, and only ONE has left a satisfactory impression.

Regarding your "Take a look" issues.....you just confirm what a right Royal MESS the NHS Dental care situation is now.:(

boozercruiser

brook2jack wrote: »

PS BC is the "very good private dentist" you speak of the one who returned to Machynlleth four years ago and the LHB wouldn't give them a NHS dental contract despite there being a shortage of NHS dentists? Try investigating the LHB accounts and you will see that they are in the red and therefore there is a policy of handing out no new NHS contracts and moreover when a dentist retires or sells their practice their contract will not be passed on. Interesting when in Wales the majority of NHS dentists are over 50!

I know nothing of the PRIVATE Dentist you mention. I was told by 3 friends of mine, that he was "Very Good". Because of costs private Dentists are not an option for me.

ME.... I am just frustrated that I had to get to the age of 62 from always being happy with my Dentistry (And costs) with a total of THREE Dentists, to now where I am far from happy with it.:(
(And costs).

brook2jack

[

Keep in mind that even though I am now 68 I have NEVER had any issues with any Doctor or Dentist untill I came across the Denticare situation here in Wales 6 years ago. I have visited 6 Dentists under them, and only ONE has left a satisfactory impression.

now.:([/QUOTE]

BC denticare only opened 4 years ago in Wales and you've only mentioned visiting 2 years ago for a course of treatment and then recently. So the other dentists you have seen can't have been from denticare or am I missing something?

Where was the dentist you were happy with and then ask yourself why are they no longer there? The fault is not one company but a system that is impossible.

boozercruiser

brook2jack wrote: »

[

Keep in mind that even though I am now 68 I have NEVER had any issues with any Doctor or Dentist untill I came across the Denticare situation here in Wales 6 years ago. I have visited 6 Dentists under them, and only ONE has left a satisfactory impression.

now.:(

BC denticare only opened 4 years ago in Wales and you've only mentioned visiting 2 years ago for a course of treatment and then recently. So the other dentists you have seen can't have been from denticare or am I missing something?

Where was the dentist you were happy with and then ask yourself why are they no longer there? The fault is not one company but a system that is impossible.[/QUOTE]

Well spotted that Brook2Jack;) Go to the top of the class and give the pens out!:D

brook2jack

Sorry BC but in one of your early posts you said that on your previous check up a year earlier you had had to ask for a scale and polish and then had only had the lower teeth scaled! So sorry the hygienist "thing" is not new.


Seriously though take eg the dentist in Barmouth , he was the last in the area taking NHS patients and then he stopped and went private. Your Polish dentists went back to Poland.

Why do you think this is? Why do you think corporates are virtually the only people who open NHS practices and why do you think that in Wales , particularly North and Mid Wales it's only since the new contract was introduced in 2006 that the corporates opened in such large numbers.

You are blaming a company and even individuals who are only doing what the Welsh Assembly wanted.They want to commission large (4 chair plus) multiclinics in purpose built buildings. The pay off for this is a high turnover of staff and rigid interpretation of the rules as to what you areclinically entitled to on the NHS.

boozercruiser

brook2jack wrote: »

Sorry BC but in one of your early posts you said that on your previous check up a year earlier you had had to ask for a scale and polish and then had only had the lower teeth scaled! So sorry the hygienist "thing" is not new.


Seriously though take eg the dentist in Barmouth , he was the last in the area taking NHS patients and then he stopped and went private. Your Polish dentists went back to Poland.

Why do you think this is? Why do you think corporates are virtually the only people who open NHS practices and why do you think that in Wales , particularly North and Mid Wales it's only since the new contract was introduced in 2006 that the corporates opened in such large numbers.

You are blaming a company and even individuals who are only doing what the Welsh Assembly wanted.They want to commission large (4 chair plus) multiclinics in purpose built buildings. The pay off for this is a high turnover of staff and rigid interpretation of the rules as to what you areclinically entitled to on the NHS.

To tell you the truth....I blame the whole damn lot of them.....the Labour Government for bringing in a new NHS Dental Contract that neither Dentists or Patients are happy with. And the Denticares of this world who are out to maximise profits while trying to avoid obligations which they DO HAVE in Dental Care.

i.e. The Denticare training to the EMPLOYED Dentist does I guess go a little like this....

'Scoot the patient off to the Hygenist instead of giving the Patient a Scale and Polish. This saves your time doing it, we can slot in more patients,and this whole situation makes us more cash'.:money:

Or, am I being to cynicle?:D

boozercruiser

brook2jack wrote: »

Sorry BC but in one of your early posts you said that on your previous check up a year earlier you had had to ask for a scale and polish and then had only had the lower teeth scaled! So sorry the hygienist "thing" is not new.


Seriously though take eg the dentist in Barmouth , he was the last in the area taking NHS patients and then he stopped and went private. Your Polish dentists went back to Poland.

Why do you think this is? Why do you think corporates are virtually the only people who open NHS practices and why do you think that in Wales , particularly North and Mid Wales it's only since the new contract was introduced in 2006 that the corporates opened in such large numbers.

You are blaming a company and even individuals who are only doing what the Welsh Assembly wanted.They want to commission large (4 chair plus) multiclinics in purpose built buildings. The pay off for this is a high turnover of staff and rigid interpretation of the rules as to what you areclinically entitled to on the NHS.

Funnily enough, only just now I had a friend visit who also lives in Machynlleth, and we got around to talking about Dental stuff.

He sees an NHS Dentist in Kitts Green Birmingham and has done for around 23 years.

He said that he last went in June 2010, had his check up with one filling. The Dentist AS USUAL finishing off with a Scale and Polish. No mention EVER of a Hygenist at extra cost.

This extra Hygenist charge is obviously a 'creeping vine' thing that needs some weed killer pouring onto it. I have my 'Round Up' in the bottle and ready to spray!:D

brook2jack

CLINICAL NEED!!!!!!!!

Person a may need it person b may want it but not need it. Person c dentist may have a quick flick around the lower teeth with a scaler... that is not a scale and polish.

Peoples clinical needs are different and everyone shouldn't get a scale and polish because they would like it. If it doesn't have a health benefit it shouldn't be done.

brook2jack

As to why things have changed recently here is an excerpt from the government report that helped to shape the new contract.


.
The scaling and polishing of teeth
40 There is no doubt that gum disease is a serious health problem for large numbers of
people. Some experts think that this disease is under-treated – for example, because
those people at risk from gum disease may require more complex procedures than are
usually carried out (Ref. 27). By contrast, straightforward ‘scaling and polishing’ of
teeth accounts for 11 per cent of total GDS costs (£130 million a year in England, £7.1
million in Wales), and this activity has increased. Over 90 per cent of surveyed 55-64
year olds say that at some time over their life they have had their teeth scaled and
polished, and 59 per cent of adults in England (52 per cent in Wales) say that they had
this procedure the last time they had attended the dentist (Ref. 12). Many
commentators, from the 1994 Government Green Paper (Ref. 28) onwards, have said
that far too many procedures are being carried out. According to the scientific
evidence, straightforward ‘scaling and polishing’ does not keep most peoples’ teeth
and gums healthy – it might make them feel and look cleaner for a while, but this is a
cosmetic effect and not a health gain. Even on a crude estimate that 50 per cent of
this activity might be unnecessary – and the evidence just given suggests that this
figure may be higher – about £65 million in England and £3.5 million in Wales could be
saved.
Primary dental care services in England and Wales |Unnecessary costs and quality problems 31
Web report paragraph 58
Web report paragraph 56 It may be that once a year cleaning ‘has questionable health benefit’; or that ‘intervals
between recalls should be increased.’ It may well be the NHS should not pay for the
so-called ‘worried well’, or for a scale and polish because the patient is going to a
wedding. "