Asked for Dental NHS Scale and Polish.Told "Go to Hygienist at £25 extra"

boozercruiser

welshdent wrote: »

I can not possibly see how I can even get CLOSE to 100K doing what I am doing now. I dont know any guys from my peers that could be close either. Possibly a principal but no way an associate.

Not around for a few days guys.

Keep up the good work while I am away guys, .....including the NHS Scale and Polishes!:rotfl:

Pennylane

Here we go again - back to the topic of scale & polish (and why we USED to always get one and now we don't unless we pay extra).

My hubby has just been to the dentist and after examining his teeth he said "I'd advise you to have them cleaned." "That's fine" said DH "can you do that now?" .... "Oh no, you'll need to make an appointment to see the hygienist but you'll have to pay for that separately".

This annoys me because when I queried this with the receptionist when I went her words were "you only get a scale and polish now within your treatment band when the dentist decides it's clinically necessary".

They really are craft devils. Surely if a dentist is "advising" you to have something done then it needs doing and IS clinically necessary.

I later spoke to a neighbour and she tells me that her NHS dentist automatically gives her teeth a clean every time she goes at no extra charge!

coldstreamalways

Well, I was advised to have a tyre changed at my last MOT but I didn't and will have it changed next week (7 weeks post MOT) because it didn't NEED doing.

I will very rarely do a scale on someone who just has a BPE score of 2 (tartar build up) for two reasons: Firstly, I am too busy doing fillings and won't demean my hygienist by asking him to clean people's teeth for them; secondly because I am very confident that for about 90% of people, the tartar is not detrimental to their health and will have returned within four weeks because they don't listen to the advice I give them on how to prevent it building up.

"Crafty devils" is a slightly irritating phrase when the vast majority of dental treatment is done because patients neglect their own mouths by not brushing correctly, by smoking and eating inappropriate foods at inappropriate times. How that leads to your dentist being responsible is beyond me. What did he do? Break into your house and put sugar in your tea whilst stealing your toothbrush??????

Take some responsibility for yourselves.

Pennylane

coldstreamalways wrote: »

Well, I was advised to have a tyre changed at my last MOT but I didn't and will have it changed next week (7 weeks post MOT) because it didn't NEED doing.

I will very rarely do a scale on someone who just has a BPE score of 2 (tartar build up) for two reasons: Firstly, I am too busy doing fillings and won't demean my hygienist by asking him to clean people's teeth for them; secondly because I am very confident that for about 90% of people, the tartar is not detrimental to their health and will have returned within four weeks because they don't listen to the advice I give them on how to prevent it building up.

"Crafty devils" is a slightly irritating phrase when the vast majority of dental treatment is done because patients neglect their own mouths by not brushing correctly, by smoking and eating inappropriate foods at inappropriate times. How that leads to your dentist being responsible is beyond me. What did he do? Break into your house and put sugar in your tea whilst stealing your toothbrush??????

Take some responsibility for yourselves.

I'm quite surprised by your comments (since you say you are a dentist). We eat a very healthy diet, don't smoke, seldom drink alcohol and clean our teeth regularly and thoroughly AND go for regular dental check-ups. My husband has never taken sugar in drinks in his adult life. I would say that's about as responsible as we can be.

I shouldn't need to tell you that teeth discolour for lots of other reasons, like antibiotics, excess fluoride etc.

The example you gave regarding tyres is plain daft. It's always been the case that you pay for an MOT and then pay extra for work to get your car up to the required standard. It hasn't always been the case with dental treatment. This whole thread is about having to pay extra for a scale & polish!!!

I'm not getting at you but I just don't understand why some dentists don't just give us a quick clean while we're in there, particularly if we're only in a few mins. Last time my daughter went for a checkup she was in there for 3 minutes.

By the way, I think it's far more irresponsible (and dangerous) to be driving around in a car with a dodgy tyre which you have been advised to have changed.

boozercruiser

Pennylane wrote: »

Here we go again - back to the topic of scale & polish (and why we USED to always get one and now we don't unless we pay extra).

My hubby has just been to the dentist and after examining his teeth he said "I'd advise you to have them cleaned." "That's fine" said DH "can you do that now?" .... "Oh no, you'll need to make an appointment to see the hygienist but you'll have to pay for that separately".

This annoys me because when I queried this with the receptionist when I went her words were "you only get a scale and polish now within your treatment band when the dentist decides it's clinically necessary".

They really are craft devils. Surely if a dentist is "advising" you to have something done then it needs doing and IS clinically necessary.

I later spoke to a neighbour and she tells me that her NHS dentist automatically gives her teeth a clean every time she goes at no extra charge!

Yes, you said it Pennylane "Here we go again. On the one hand we have the likes of you, me and your Husband as Patients where we just KNOW that as you say " if a dentist is "advising" you to have something done then it needs doing and IS clinically necessary" and therefore he SHOULD be doing a Scale And Polish as per his NHS contract.

On the other hand we have the vested interest Dentist Coldsteamalways who is blaiming the Patient for not looking after his teeth properly. So with respect to him the attitude seems to be

"M8 it's all YOUR fault, and I couldn't care less about my NHS contract. You can jolly well build up that tarter which needs a Scale and Polish, and I will be ready to take the tooth out once you have some toothache"

On the other side there are dentists out there still who as you say
"I later spoke to a neighbour and she tells me that her NHS dentist automatically gives her teeth a clean every time she goes at no extra charge!"

For me, I am just waiting to have my fillings and an extraction done in January, and once I have had my Scale and Polish, which I will INSIST on, then I will be taking this whole issue to the TV and Newspaper Media.

I am convinced that there are literaly many THOUSANDS of people who SHOULD be being treated for gum disease or whatever under the NHS Bands as described in previous posts who are being scooted off to the Hygenist by the Dentist for an extra cost of around £30.

I wonder what the 'cut' is?

Don't let them get away with it.....make a stand...ask formally for the Scale and Polish. If refused, go into the complaints procedure.
Write to your local newspaper, your MP and the relevant NHS Authority.

Coldstreamalways can look after his Dentist vested interest of saving time and money by his attitude.

ME? I will look after my Patient interest of not paying £28 extra when I just do not have to!

Make a STAND.:D

boozercruiser

Pennylane wrote: »

I'm quite surprised by your comments (since you say you are a dentist). We eat a very healthy diet, don't smoke, seldom drink alcohol and clean our teeth regularly and thoroughly AND go for regular dental check-ups. My husband has never taken sugar in drinks in his adult life. I would say that's about as responsible as we can be.

I shouldn't need to tell you that teeth discolour for lots of other reasons, like antibiotics, excess fluoride etc.

The example you gave regarding tyres is plain daft. It's always been the case that you pay for an MOT and then pay extra for work to get your car up to the required standard. It hasn't always been the case with dental treatment. This whole thread is about having to pay extra for a scale & polish!!!

I'm not getting at you but I just don't understand why some dentists don't just give us a quick clean while we're in there, particularly if we're only in a few mins. Last time my daughter went for a checkup she was in there for 3 minutes.

By the way, I think it's far more irresponsible (and dangerous) to be driving around in a car with a dodgy tyre which you have been advised to have changed.

With some Dentist attitudes around like Coldstreamamalways around, perhaps this explains why the below article was in the Daily Mail last August.:)................................I was particularly interested in this quote right at the bottom..

Chief dental officer Barry Cockcroft said the decline in complex treatments was evidence that dentists were freeing up time to do more preventative work.
'Dentists are legally and ethically obliged to deliver all treatment under the NHS that is clinically required and effective,' he said.

'We are sure most dentists would be deeply shocked by the suggestion that patients may be deliberately under-treated to maximise profit.
'This would be a breach of contract as well as patient trust.'

If the cap fits anywhere out there....please wear it!



Dentists accused of ripping out teeth to avoid complex work due to 'drill and fill' contract


0diggsdigg
By Daniel Martin

Last updated at 11:26 PM on 19th August 2009

• Comments (9)
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New figures have revealed a massive 45.5 per cent decrease in the number of treatments where a bridge was fitted

Dentists have been carrying out fewer complex treatments such as bridges and root canals since the start of a controversial new contract, it has emerged.

But the number of extractions has risen over the same period, leaving critics to claim that teeth are being needlessly pulled out because dentists no longer have the financial incentive to undertake more complex work.
The number of people been given false teeth has also sharply increased.
Critics say the figures demonstrate how much dental care has deteriorated under Labour, leaving thousands missing out on treatment that could save their teeth.
The worrying official statistics, from the NHS Information Centre, come just weeks after it emerged that hundreds of NHS dentists now earn more than £300,000 a year.
The latest statistics show that the number of patients seeing a dentist within the past 24 months is still more than one million fewer than before the contract - which was designed to improve access.
Some 53.8 per cent of the population - 27.5 million people - saw an NHS dentist within the two years ending March 2009, down 1.9 per cent on the two years before March 2006, when the new contract was introduced. However, numbers have started to creep back up again.

Perhaps more concerning however, is that the 2008/09 figures showed a huge drop in some treatments compared with 2003/04, the period before a new dental contract was introduced.
The NHS Information Centre data showed a massive 45.5 per cent decrease in the number of treatments where a bridge was fitted, from 146,000 to 80,000.
There was also a 39.4 per cent decrease in the number of courses of treatment which included root canal, from 907,000 to 549,000.
Meanwhile, there has been a 8.7 per cent increase in treatments which included an extraction, from almost 2.6 million to more than 2.8 million.
And the number of dentures fitted has gone up from 721,000 to 819,000 - up 13.7 per cent.
Some critics have argued that dentists no longer have a financial incentive to undertake more complex work.
Before the 2006 contract, dentists were paid per procedure, but after it came in they were paid to provide a specific rate of procedures in the coming year. With the money in the bank, the fear is that some dentists may feel less inclined to carry out complex and expensive procedures and instead choose the cheaper option of taking the tooth out.
There are also claims that some dentists are inviting people back for needless check ups as a way to maximise revenue.
Conservative health spokesman Mike Penning said: 'Unfortunately, the Government's disastrous contract has led to a fall in the number of complex treatments routinely provided by dentists.
'This represents a failure for the profession, for patients, and for the wider NHS. Labour must ensure that there are proper incentives in place to provide appropriate treatment and preventative advice.'
He added: 'Regrettably, far too many people still cannot gain access to the care that they need under the Government's latest contract for NHS dentistry. It is vital that ministers address the postcode lottery in dental availability which persists under the current system.'
Dr Anthony Halperin, of the Patients Association, said: 'The fall we have seen in complex procedures is very significant and very concerning. Numbers are not enough - what is vital is the quality of care. This is what needs to be urgently addressed.'
Earlier this month, figures showed that dentists in England and Wales earned an average of £89,062 in 2007/08.
There are more than 19,000 dentists in England and Wales, of which 382 earned more than £300,000 before tax, excluding expenses.
A further 113 dentists earned £275,000 to £300,000, while 159 earned £250,000 to £275,000, the figures showed. A further 228 dentists earned £225,000 to £250,000, and 291 earned £200,000 to £225,000. Some 4,418 dentists earned between £100,000 and £200,000.
Chief dental officer Barry Cockcroft said the decline in complex treatments was evidence that dentists were freeing up time to do more preventative work.
'Dentists are legally and ethically obliged to deliver all treatment under the NHS that is clinically required and effective,' he said.

'We are sure most dentists would be deeply shocked by the suggestion that patients may be deliberately under-treated to maximise profit.
'This would be a breach of contract as well as patient trust.'



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1207693/Dentists-accused-ripping-teeth-avoid-complex-work-drill-contract.html#ixzz18PtOm4KP

boozercruiser

Axe for contracts that have made dentists rich as A&E cases jump



By James Chapman
Last updated at 11:54 AM on 1st November 2010

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Health Secretary Andrew Lansley: Vowing to 'tear up the contracts that 'have made dentists rich'

Tens of thousands of patients are seeking hospital treatment for their teeth after failing to find an NHS dentist.
Emergency admissions have increased by 40 per cent over the past decade, according to official figures seen by the Daily Mail.
Some 24,292 patients were treated in casualty in 2009/10, compared with 17,400 in 2000/2001. Shockingly, some patients were admitted to wards after trying to pull out their own teeth.
Today, Health Secretary Andrew Lansley will vow to tear up contracts that have made dentists rich, saying botched Labour reforms have made it even harder to get care on the Health Service.
‘These figures provide more evidence that the previous Labour government failed to improve access to NHS dentistry,’ he told the Daily Mail.
‘While some emergency admissions are to be expected, the sheer level of increase suggests that fewer people are getting the dental care that they need.
‘The coalition Government will not delay in reversing this. That’s why we are committing to introducing a new dentistry contract that will focus on achieving good dental health and increasing access to NHS dentistry, with an additional focus on the oral health of schoolchildren.’



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1325489/Axe-contracts-dentists-rich-A-E-cases-jump.html#ixzz18Px4yYQH

The sooner the better!:D

michaelvintner

Thanks for your addition to your first post. i have just had a load of work done to my teeth and about six visits. Paid a total of £198 for it. Better than the £200 my girlfriend had to pay some idiot denplan private dentist to do a major f*ck up on her tooth and that was only one tooth and two visits. I have told her to go NHS.

Toothsmith

michaelvintner wrote: »

Thanks for your addition to your first post. i have just had a load of work done to my teeth and about six visits. Paid a total of £198 for it. Better than the £200 my girlfriend had to pay some idiot denplan private dentist to do a major f*ck up on her tooth and that was only one tooth and two visits. I have told her to go NHS.

What you need to look for is a good dentist.

The same dentist who you feel mucked up the tooth would have also mucked it up if he was NHS!

Private/NHS/Denplan are just payment methods/systems, and are meaningless in terms of how skilled the person working on your teeth actually is.

NHS dentistry is no guarantee of quality, but neither is paying lots of money. Choose a dentist carefully, and make the choice when your teeth feel all right - not when you're forced to find one because you've got a toothache.

brook2jack

Pennylane

Antibiotic (tetracycline) and fluoride staining (fluorosis) are stains that are taken up by developing teeth they cannot be polished off. Even if they could they are cosmetic problems and just like tobacco or tea or coffee staining are not eligible for polishing under the NHS.

Tobacco staining etc is not a health problem ,it might not look good but it is not a health problem.

I think there is also a misunderstanding over a scale and polish ..... There is a world of difference between a dentist spending a short while removing some tartar from the back of six bottom teeth and a hygienist spending 20 minutes fine scaling . The first has no health benefits at all and the second will if you follow the hygienists advice.

The scaling of the lower teeth is known as a social scale for this reason... The patient likes it but it has no health benefit.

Finally Pennylane as we've said before you are entitled to all treatment that is necessary to make you dentally fit. If the dentist is not doing that it is wrong but it is equally wrong to try and get extra treatment for which the NHS is not supposed to pay like cosmetic scaling to get rid of unsightly stain , tartar which has no health benefit but you would like it done.