Martin told you Icesave had a "dodgy compensation scheme"... his comment on 4 News

Plasticman

meester wrote: »

A long time?

It wasn't there in February, or indeed when most people opened their accounts, when Icesave was best buy account here week after week.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080209223209/http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/safe-savings



Because it wasn't there when they committed their money, they had no idea!!!!



Dodgy? Why didn't he say that when he was recommending it??? He didn't even KNOW it seems from past versions of the 'safe savings' article.

It probably wasn't there when I opened my account - but I still knew. It was regularly included in the weekly email and was plastered all over this site. I understand that we all feel a bit p1ssed off about it, but we should be responsible for our own actions - not looking to blame somebody else.

LucyTheDwarf

1echidna wrote: »

To add to another persons astonishment I find it astonishing that Lucy is not having a quite break somewhere having told us over the weekend that she had thoroughly researched the subject and Icelandic banks were absolutely safe and that anyone who said otherwise was akin to vermin.

I do not think I put it quite like that!

I truly am very sorry if I have offended or upset anyone with any of my posts, but I stand by them. I did not believe the worst would happen, but my posts have always been along the vein that if it did, all UK savers would be safe. This is still my belief. I do accept that I am probably being very naive and over optimistic. But I just cannot in a million years envisage Gordon Brown letting anyone lose out in this crisis. He has not had it easy since he took the reins, and it is very unlikely he'll be re-elected as Prime Minister, in my opinion. He wont put the last nail in his coffin by letting anyone lose out, I am sure.

I have been well and truly fed up of over exaggerated and hysterical posts about Icelandic banks. I have been trying to encourage calm, fact based decisions, not the mad blind panic that has characterised this forum for the previous few days. To me, I have seen posters that have been feeding off the worry of others, and enjoying the turmoil that the financial world find itself in - this is what disgusts me.

Now, from the private messages I've received, I can see I've made plenty of enemies. A lot of them accusing me of "being nowhere to be seen", from earlier today when the news about Icesave broke (I was at work...), or hoping I'm happy now that the worst has happened (I can assure you I take no pleasure in anyone else's worry or misery). I am no coward, and I have no problem admitting I was wrong - so I'm not going to be on a "quiet break somewhere", hiding from the news, the posts, the private messages - no matter how nasty any of you decide to be.

I always try to help those who ask, if I have any shared experience or knowledge. And my sympathies really do go out to anyone who finds themselves in any kind of trouble from this, or any other crisis.

31May2008

“If I tell people to withdraw their money, we would have seen this happen months ago…

Thereby allowing savers the chance to gain control of their money while dissuading others to deposit funds in icelandic banks.

"The only option I had was to tell people: “This is the protection…and Icesave has slightly dodgy protection because the money comes from Iceland”

Not true - nothing about the bank or its scheme was ever described as 'slightly dodgy'.

earlgrey_3

Lavendyr wrote: »

Personally, I'm gutted. I have a relatively small amount of savings with Icesave - not my largest sum, by any measure, but it is enough that I am really concerned....

If the UK government is required to use money from other taxpayers, some of whom will have no savings themselves at all, to compensate those with savings who invested in a foreign bank it will be a very controversial decision. That was the political point repeatedly made by some of us at the beginning of this year. It's made even more difficult if they were fully warned by "experts" such as Martin Lewis on this site as he claims but disregarded those warnings.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that and that it all goes smoothly. Easily said, but worrying about such things never helps.

MSE_Martin

Apologies for the word 'dodgy' (or 'slightly dodgy' as someone has told me I actually said)- to be honest that was hyperbole in the heat of the moment and wasn't the right word... importantly different would've been better.

It wasn't an easy interview. I seemed to be solely responsible for a recommendation that every website, best buy table, Which, Tv programme, newspaper article covering the guide had done.

I didnt know there would be a saver there when a walked in - and the chap in the wheelchair certainly added a different tone to the interview. And there could be no debate due to timings, and his speech difficulties.

Unfortunately it wasn't pointed out that the chap had never heard of me and wasn't a user of this site or watcher of any of my programmes.

I knew it was adversarial rather than "expert" interview, a change from when I was originally asked. This is something I'm not particularly used to and I normally would have been more careful about phrasing.

As for dodgy I still believe people's money is protected up to £50,000 and have been pushing the treasury hard on this today.

Let me clear up a few points in the thread.

1. Before I wrote the safe savings guide a year ago, little was known about the issue and we pieced a lot together. Two years ago no one cared a jot about this

2. In the original incarnation we didnt mention the passport scheme as we didnt know about it - simple as that.

3. It was included in the safe savings guide sometimes between January and April - I cant remember the exact date.

4. Since April (roughly from memory) EVERY mention of Icesave on the site included the following note directly underneath

IMPORTANT. Icesave, unlike some foreign banks, hasn’t chosen to be completely protected under the UK's Financial Services Compensation Scheme, and thus if, in the unlikely event that it were to go bust, getting the money back could be more difficult. See the Are Your Savings Safe? guide for a full explanation, and Martin’s Icesave safety blog.

5. The information about the passport scheme has been in the safe savings guide, which has been read many millions of times and put high up the weekly email so many times we've had complaints that it is boring.

I've been going on and on about this issue and the passport scheme on all my programmes, radio 2, gmtv (when time allows and im not cut off), It pays to watch and more. So much so i've been told by producers "everyone knows" lets do something else, when i've been pushing it as a subject.

6. As for commercial links to Icesave. Icesave was very rarely an affiliate link, for less than a month (from memory - but of that magnitude I believe)- in fact the site has hardly made any money from it. The times it was an affiliate link it was a long way down the list. I only wish in this one case we DIDNT have the ethcial stance that means we always say the best regardless of the site's revenue. As if so, Icesave would have almost never been on the site. Sadly we try and tell people what's the best rate.

I hope this clears things up - again apologies for the word dodgy - its not easy in the heat of the moment when you're feeling attacked.

I would also appreciate that whether you agree with me or not - you help direct people to some of these answers and my blog - so people can read what i have to say at first hand

Martin

PS and all updates on Icesave are in the safe savings guide, and as requested of course we will do template guides if necessary, if compensation needs applying for.

KingL

If it makes a difference, the phrase used was "slightly dodgy"

cvd

If the UK government is required to use money from other taxpayers, some of whom will have no savings themselves at all, to compensate those with savings who invested in a foreign bank it will be a very controversial decision. That was the political point repeatedly made by some of us

And of course this is why the Irish government's 100% guarantee is totally valueless to UK voters. The reason is political. The guarantee is worth something to Irish voters but not UK voters. Governments lie all the time and they can pass retrospective legislation. No Irish government in a financial crisis is going to compensate people in another country and hence make the financial position of their own voters worse. Indeed, they would use the deposits of UK voters to recompense Irish voters!

There is no such thing as a 100% guarantee.

langtoft_lad

I have to agree with both sides of the argument.
It's unfair to blame Martin the current situation, we have to take responsibility for our own actions - he has been absolutely conscientious about giving us the best advice possible. No one has been able to foresee the current carnage in the banking world.

However
It was disingenuous of Martin to claim he described the Icesave protection as dodgy - different yes, more bureaucratic probably but certainly not less safe than the UK. That was the clear implication from what he wrote on here.

Regardless of his comments on one TV program - I still value his advice & opinion.
I'm hopeful that in the end that Iceland's scheme will payout as they should.

Lavendyr

earlgrey wrote: »

If the UK government is required to use money from other taxpayers, some of whom will have no savings themselves at all, to compensate those with savings who invested in a foreign bank it will be a very controversial decision. That was the political point repeatedly made by some of us at the beginning of this year. It's made even more difficult if they were fully warned by "experts" such as Martin Lewis on this site as he claims but disregarded those warnings.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that and that it all goes smoothly. Easily said, but worrying about such things never helps.

That's a very good point. However, let's not forget that those of us who save also pay taxes.

To reiterate, I would not have put my money with Landsbanki had I believed for one moment that their business model or situation was in any way as problematic or risky as that of NR or B&B. Furthermore, although it is a foreign-owned bank, it does have its base of operations for Icesave within the UK. One could say similar of many banks operating in the UK - such as Abbey, for example, owned by Santander, even though registered as a UK institution - and, in fact, now, A&L and B&B. How could the government choose to bail out UK savers at one institution operating in the UK, and yet not another? They could potentially set a dangerous precedent. Even were I not an Icesave depositor, I do believe I would still want to see my taxes go towards compensating Icesave depositors, because I think it is so important for the government to encourage & support saving and to demonstrate that people can still have faith in the banking system. Right now, I think that last point is the most important concern.

Another point for potential concern is that Icesave offered ISAs, which are in themselves a government-supported initiative. Had Icesave not offered an ISA, I would not have saved with them as much as I did. Could it therefore be the case that the government should take some responsibility for that? Martin Lewis certainly seems to think so.

To conclude, you're absolutely right, it is a difficult situation for the government and I fully appreciate that. I just feel that it could, potentially, be equally controversial to deny savers compensation when those savers have been trying to build up those savings to avoid having to live off tax-payers' money in the first place. If you don't save the money of savers yet want people to save, what is the incentive for savers to save? Bit of a vicious circle, really.

Plasticman

MSE_Martin wrote: »

It wasn't an easy interview. I seemed to be solely responsible for a recommendation that every website, best buy table, Which, Tv programme, newspaper article covering the guide had done.

It looked pretty !!!!!! to be honest - rather you than me

In addition to the collapse of Icesave, I also think that it is your fault entirely that we haven't yet achieved world peace and that my toast was burnt this morning. You [EMAIL="b@st@rd"]b@st@rd[/EMAIL]