'Icesave... angry, frustrated and upset...' blog discussion

GWEPM

Firstly, I am no expert so the following may not be accurate. But my understanding of the BACS payment system is this:
When you request a transfer from one bank to another the amount is deducted from your statement with the source bank (say Icesave). Notification is then passed to the receiving bank.
Funds may then be shown on the receiving bank statement as a credit, but will often be shown as "uncleared funds". Alternatively the receiving bank may hold it in a suspense account.
Then the recieving bank sends sends a return to the source bank and only when the source bank confirms is the money considered "Cleared". This is why transfers take up to 4 days.
In the case of people who transferred funds out of Icesave in the last couple of days before they froze the accounts, the initial statement changes may have been made but the final confirmation required to clear the funds has been after Icesave stopped trading and the receiving bank has not got the required confirmation. The transfer is then aborted and the statements on both banks revert to their original figures.

It would explain why some transfers have not gone through. It isn't that Icesave are clawing back the funds, simply that they are failing to respond to the receiving bank's confirmation request.
As I say, I am not an expert, but this is how I understand the process normally happens.

payless

I'm not going down the lines of who is to blame ... advice or no advice.. own fault etc...

but what this does show is that there are various non-regulated routes ( whether it be TV, newspapers, websites) that make a profit from giving quasi- advice, yet don't have to come under the regulations / pay the fees.
(although stranglely at the moment I don't believe advice of cash deposits is a regulated activity ).

I do think Martin has helped consumers become more aware of finances , but with that comes a degree of responsbility ( something I assume he is not taking lightly )

I do rememember years ago questioning the Nvesta "capital protected " products mentioned some years back ( counterparty risk) and it being said the issue was so remote - plus even this year I've had MSE emails that he said - " This means if the ridiculously unlikely even a bank went bust, "

the " safer saving article" has been beefed up over the last 6-8 months , but trouble is people have acted on original reports , and also many won't read the full articles ( not saying thats Martins fault)


The responsibility is more so as many recommendations do now come with a payment to the site.( not saying thats wrong , but seems slightly off the original basis for the site - ie to promote his other works) .

Its growth does mean its needs the income, but I also think that the site ( mainly the forum) as a whole has outgrown itself .. what does it want to be , profit or not - a financial site, a discount site, an ebay community site, a gambling site or a chat room

lilmismayhem

Ratatosk wrote: »

Is this the link you were looking for?

http://www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/news/firm/icesave.html

Not sure why Martin hasn't reflected this in the 'Are your savings safe' article yet.

This is brilliant news, thank you for posting this - finally we have the compensation payment triggered. I copied the below from FSCS website so we'll know process/how long etc by Friday. GREAT NEWS

Icesave default paves the way for help for FSCS to help UK depositors

The UK authorities and FSCS are stepping in to help customers of Icesave after the firm was declared in default by the Financial Services Authority (FSA). The move paves the way for FSCS to help the bank's UK customers. FSCS is working closely with HM Treasury and the FSA to take the necessary steps to pay people back their money.
FSCS Chief Executive Loretta Minghella said: "We know that many savers with Icesave are anxious about their savings. Following the Chancellor's announcement people can be confident they will be repaid in full.
"We are working closely with all concerned on the practical arrangements to get people their money back as quickly as possible. We hope to be in a position to say more about the arrangements by the close of business on Friday, and we will publish updates on our website."
For more information, please watch our website or call our helpline on 020 7892 7300.

GWEPM

The FSCS web site also says that they aim to resolve compensation matters "within 6 months". This is in their general blurb, not specific to the current Icesave issues so hopefully the current situation will be treated as a special case and more quickly than that.

blondieleopard

d.edna

so are you saying that anyone who puts their money into a bank is taking a risk ...?

it would be interesting to see how many' investors' out there agreed with you. Most people regard their banks as risk free unstitutions......
...that is..up until now...which is why the sale of safes has risen by 40% over last few days ..and I for one will be getting one

blondieleopard

d.edna

so are you saying that anyone who puts their money into a bank is taking a risk ...?

it would be interesting to see how many' investors' out there agreed with you. Most people regard their banks as risk free unstitutions......
...that is..up until now...which is why the sale of safes has risen by 40% over last few days ..and I for one will be getting one.....

I do agree with you about the interest though....that is greedy

jamielovell

On Working Lunch just now they were discussing the interest issue - you will get back all interest accrued up to the date when icesave defaulted - i.e. this week. This is the case even if you're in a one year bond etc - you will still get interest calculated up to this week. No interest will be paid between now and when you actually get the money back.
Personally, I think this is generous - I was happy enough just to get my money back, let alone any as yet unpaid interest

sjohnson57

For those of you caught up in the KE to ING transfer and made CHAPS or BACS transfers earlier in the week which have fallen into a black hole, I rang ING Direct given that I can't get any answer out of KE. Very helpful person on the other end of the phone. Says that any transactions that were initiated will be honoured but will take 'a few days' to sort out. so keep an eye on your linked account. Questioned what would happen to teh CHAPS fee given that the transaction didn't happen on the same day. He advised to write to ING quoting your KE account number and date of transaction and they would progress. ING tel number 08003768877.

d.edna

blondieleopard wrote: »

d.edna

so are you saying that anyone who puts their money into a bank is taking a risk ...?

Yes, you are investing in that bank, by giving them your cash, Banks as we have seen can go t*ts up. To be honest I thought goverment bonds were the safest, but with the Iceland sitation I am not so sure.

it would be interesting to see how many' investors' out there agreed with you. Most people regard their banks as risk free unstitutions......

Well if you include the goverment promise for investors they are, else I would treat them as any other investment, The basic way the bank works is you invest in them with your money, then they go ahead and loan it on or invest somewhere else thats how they can afford the interest they pay. The goverment promise does make them safe but infact they are as risky as anyone else.

...that is..up until now...which is why the sale of safes has risen by 40% over last few days ..and I for one will be getting one

I got mine when they were £15 in partners

passau91

jamielovell wrote: »

On Working Lunch just now they were discussing the interest issue - you will get back all interest accrued up to the date when icesave defaulted - i.e. this week. This is the case even if you're in a one year bond etc - you will still get interest calculated up to this week. No interest will be paid between now and when you actually get the money back.
Personally, I think this is generous - I was happy enough just to get my money back, let alone any as yet unpaid interest

Thanks for this post. I thought that might be the case as I logged onto my Icesave account last night and it showed that the monthly interest which rolled up into the the ISA each month was showing for the end of September (and the end of each of the previous months) and I assume would therefore count as the balance I hold there to be compensated/transferred.

From a couple of the posts yesterday (if I could find them quickly, I would include references to them here), is there any suspicion that the Icelandic government was hoping to grab the cash in Icesave to shore up its economy/banking system rather than any inherent default situation it was trying to avoid (put more plainly, was the intention to help themselves rather than safeguard UK/Icelandic depositors).