'Icesave... angry, frustrated and upset...' blog discussion

IcesaveSteven

Agreed - forget all the other stuff - what/when/how will we get out money back are the questions of the 'moment'

ThrobsBlackHat

RealityCheck wrote: »

I'm happy to correct you. You have completely missed the point.

I'll put it as succinctly as possible for you: Martin should not be recommending financial services products full stop. He is doing so on a blanket basis without knowing each person's individual circumstances. All the disclaimers are there to say that he is not giving financial advice.

How can this hoold true if he is actually recommending particular accounts to people ? You can't have it both ways and that is where his boundaries have become blurred.

I think you are the one who may have missed the point.

A "Best buy" table merely accesses publically available information, interest rates, and publishes the highest. It does not claim to do any more or any less than do a comparison of interest rates.

He also does a "best buy" table for cashback sites but this does not constitute a recommendation.

He also does a "best buy" table for flights, but this does not constitute a recommendation.

He also does a "Best buy" table for international phone calls, but guess what, this does not constitute a recommendation.

If many people had not found Icesave through Moneysavingexpert they would have found it on moneysupermarket, moneymatters, in the pages of any tabloid or broadsheets. "Best buy" on interest rates is exactly that. If MSE users had found a BETTER deal on another site they would be complaining to Martin for not having the market leading product in his table. He is not a financial advisor or an analyst - he does not give risk ratings on banks, mortgage lenders, phone companies, insurance companies. He just publishes publically available information to save other people from having to look for it.

Confused or compare the market don't give you recommendation on which insurance to take out - they give you a comparison. You have to analyse the strength of policy, hire car, excess etc etc and work out which is the best for you.

Unless we are saying that Martin is so big and famous that everything he says is taken as gospel so he can't say anything for fear of leading the general public astray, which would render this entire project completely voiceless.

When Martin tells you ina Best Buy table which supermarket has the cheapest own brand beans does that constitutue a recommendation? If those beans were found to contain toxins and recalled and users of MSE became ill and even died from eating them would Martin be to blame?

The Icelandic banks did have the best rates which is why even our local government bodies had millions of pounds stashed away in them!

born2Bacynic

What in God's name is A D playing at? While refusing to underwrite all savings in UK bank accounts, he immediately guarantees ALL deposits in a foreign bank!

These investors placed money in Icesave because it was offering higher interest rates than could be obtained in UK banks. It is fairly obvious that this action carries a greater risk.

Why should large Icesave investors be in a more beneficial position than, say, someone who prudently spread their money in £35k chunks with Abbey and Bradford & Bingley, two former UK institutions, who find themselves in a position that THEIR savings are not fully covered!

Is he now going to guarantee all deposits in all FOREIGN banks while leaving the UK exposed!!

Charity begins at home!

Dan_66

lilmismayhem wrote: »

OK, I've had enough of coming onto this thread to find that people are still blaming Martin for their problems. ENOUGH ALREADY.

Let's focus on what is important here

1) Icesave is still not allowing withdrawals - even BACS/CHAPS gets returned to the account
2) Icesave is still not declared insolvent
3) Because of point 2 - NO COMPENSATION has been triggered regardless of what the Chancellor says about guaranteeing everyone's funds
4) No one is buying Icesave like the other Icelandic banks so we shouldn't expect business as usual on the website anytime soon

What we should all be doing is lobbying the government to make the Icelandic authorities hurry up and declare Icesave insolvent so the FSCS can send everyone their forms and we can start claiming our money back or reopen our accounts so we can get at what is legally ours. At the moment nothing is happening - I can bet Martin is the one doing this lobbying while we all sit on here whining about whether or not he gave advice.

Incidentally - here are two articles you may find interesting. The first a BBC interview with the Icelandic PM saying this will go through the courts, the second a reuters article saying Landsbanki may have enough assets to cover Icesave deposits. So this is by no means clear as to what will happen next. The government need to tell us the truth and give us their plan of action with timescales so we can start planning how to cope without our money readily available.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7659975.stm
http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKTRE4977RV20081008

ICESAVE are now in deafault as declared by the FSCS today-http://www.fscs.org.uk/consumer/:j

Ratatosk

ICESAVE has now been declared in default so we can rest easy- (i posted a similar query on here last night)

Check out the FSCS website-sorry i don't have a link but it was updated overnigt to reflect the default situation and says it should be in a position to outline the details of the refund process by Friday 10th October

Is this the link you were looking for?

http://www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/news/firm/icesave.html

Not sure why Martin hasn't reflected this in the 'Are your savings safe' article yet.

Quibbling

As a result of UK government action, it now appears that no ICESAVE retail investor will lose any money - BUT Martin must consider how he presents information and those that accept his recommendations (including me!) must consider how they use it.

Based on Martin's recommendation, I invested in Kaupthing Edge. I won't lose anything either, but even if I had - it was my decision and I am responsible for it! I considered and rejected ICESAVE as I didn't like the passport scheme requiring to reclaim cash from 2 different bodies, I now need to consider whether I am happy to leave my investment with ING Direct protected solely by the Dutch scheme. That will be my decision too. To all those who blame Martin for any investment decisions I say - GROW UP, take responsibility for your own actions.

I do accuse Martin of naivety and a degree of hypocrisy. He (and many others) have been telling us to reclaim money due to mis-sold endowments and from bank charges.

Given that many did not look at or ask to see the "small print" on endowments and bank charges and many that Martin helps reclaim money fall into this category, Martin was naive to think that those complaining on this thread would take responsibility for their decisions based on information which he provided - I don't call it advice as for those that read the small print, it clearly isn't.

As far as hypocrisy is concerned, Martin is happy to help those who didn't read the small print recover money from large institutions such as banks, but now uses his own small print to defend himself against the complaints here. He still has no responsibility for my actions or yours, it was our decision - but the same should apply to all of the other areas where those using his recommendations didn't read the small print.

I read the small print, I always do! I have never paid a bank charge in my life. I couldn't claim endowment mis-selling, not because my advisor did a good job, but because I researched endowments and asked the advisor for documentation on all of the information he should have given me and which I wouldn't have been given if I hadn't asked. Those of you that didn't do your own research could claim money because you didn't take responsibility and those like me who took responsibility can't.

The returns to those who don't take responsibility reduce profits - but they don't come from a black hole, they do reduce payments to shareholders. Shareholders include pension funds and the money you reclaim reduces my pension (and yours)! Yes, bank charges are and were punitive - but they were there when you signed up and maybe had they been more punitive we would have avoided the personal debt levels which are contributing to the current crisis.

sjohnson57

Has anyone been able to get anything out of KE/ING re withdrawals that were made over the last couple of days that seem to have gone into a black hole. Like others I made a CHAPS withdrawal - no sign of it in KE account or linked account. Sent them 3 messages - no reply. continuous engaged tone on their 08451 tel no. Anyone got any news?

Dan_66

born2Bacynic wrote: »

What in God's name is A D playing at? While refusing to underwrite all savings in UK bank accounts, he immediately guarantees ALL deposits in a foreign bank!

These investors placed money in Icesave because it was offering higher interest rates than could be obtained in UK banks. It is fairly obvious that this action carries a greater risk.

Why should large Icesave investors be in a more beneficial position than, say, someone who prudently spread their money in £35k chunks with Abbey and Bradford & Bingley, two former UK institutions, who find themselves in a position that THEIR savings are not fully covered!

Is he now going to guarantee all deposits in all FOREIGN banks while leaving the UK exposed!!

Charity begins at home!

1) When Northern Rock was going down depositors entire deposits were protected over the then maximum £35000 limit-so this is not the first time the government has protected more than the regulatory maximum

2) How many of those people criticising the measures taken to protect depositors in a 'Foregin' bank have accounts with HSBC???

blondieleopard

channel 4 interview with Martin was disgraceful, and their feature the previous evening when jon snow used the 'buyer beware' phrase...was also insulting.
It implied that those of us who put our savings in Icesave were irresponsible, risk taking and greedy.
Nothing can be further from the truth. Savings ARE ( in the normal world ) risk averse and not the same as stocks and shares etc.. which by their very nature involve risk. Most rational people will put their savings where they can receive optimum interest...(without risk )
We are being tarnished and contaminated by this slur of greed which to me suggests that we are not 'worthy' of being remunerated.
Most people on the website appear to be prudent and money savvy and considered many options before placing money in iceland.Admittedly the financial news re Iceland over the last 12 months was implying difficulty...but NO ONE considered the possibility that the entire country would collapse.
Moreover, we should not forget, that although the split compensation scheme is unwieldy and complex...nevertheless...it was..or should have been a rock solid protection to savers....the fact that the Iceland PM can unilaterally default on that scheme is disgraceful and probably illegal...and we should be able to sue Iceland for breach of contract...or fraud..or whatever !!! get some clever legal suit on to it...

d.edna

blondieleopard wrote: »

channel 4 interview with Martin was disgraceful, and their feature the previous evening when jon snow used the 'buyer beware' phrase...was also insulting.

Why is it? Buyers should be aware.

It implied that those of us who put our savings in Icesave were irresponsible, risk taking and greedy.

After reading this thread I have to say that statement is true. Look at the people moaning about their interest.

Nothing can be further from the truth. Savings ARE ( in the normal world ) risk averse and not the same as stocks and shares etc.. which by their very nature involve risk. Most rational people will put their savings where they can receive optimum interest...(without risk )

Investing (Basically what you do) always carries risk, so your statement is wrong, you invest your savings into a bank

We are being tarnished and contaminated by this slur of greed which to me suggests that we are not 'worthy' of being remunerated.

Well alot of the ICESAVE customers on here are demanding interest payable and my personal opinion is you should be happy your getting your investment back, and interest is money you never had so you haven't lost anything

Most people on the website appear to be prudent and money savvy and considered many options before placing money in iceland.Admittedly the financial news re Iceland over the last 12 months was implying difficulty...but NO ONE considered the possibility that the entire country would collapse.
Moreover, we should not forget, that although the split compensation scheme is unwieldy and complex...nevertheless...it was..or should have been a rock solid protection to savers....the fact that the Iceland PM can unilaterally default on that scheme is disgraceful and probably illegal...and we should be able to sue Iceland for breach of contract...or fraud..or whatever !!! get some clever legal suit on to it...

I agree with you about the country, but anyone thinking of investing should have researched into that particular country, and as for my opinion on Martin, he gives financial advice but then disclaims himself, not good in my opinion (I come here to help people not for his advice) as per my earlier post