Icelandic Banks - The thread for OFFSHORE savers

occamsrazor

phoebe36 wrote: »

liquidator would have to sue Iceland govt

...which in theory I guess is possible, but unlikely and would take ages. And do they have any money???
I have to say it is a bit frustrating that Kaupthing hf Iceland is in the control of their government and still open for business....

stanley317

I've just been going through the new IoM FSA Act and there is a statement that a claimant has to provide sufficient documentary edivence as part of the claims procedure. Part of the rationale for the interest rate on the Edge accounts was the lack of branches and unnecesary paperwork. I have just realised that I have no documentary evidence (i.e. bank statements) as to the current amount in my instant access account and 1 year bond. They have now taken down the web site so I cannot even log in and print screen captures.

Can anybody comment on this issue?

P.S. I would appreciate it if people could keep their opinions to themselves in ralation to my lack of judgement in this scenario.

MacBiggles

Good idea Redbajan and Monkeyface. This is what I have sent -- it might give the legal types in HMG something to think about.

Dear Sir/Madam

I learned today that Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander (Isle of Man) Limted, (KSFIoM) with which I have savings, has requested the Douglas authorities to wind up its affairs on the island. Her Majesty's Government (HMG) in the United Kingdom possesses international juridical personality with respect to the Isle of Man and is therefore responsible for cases of international law. Consequently, I am requesting HMG to include Isle of Man KSFIoM depositors in any legal actions with respect to Kaupthing hf and/or the Government of Iceland.
When KSFIoM purchased the banking business of Derbyshire Offshore Limited, it was required to accept an irrevocable and binding undertaking to guarantee depositors' funds that Derbyshire Offshore Limited had maintained, and a memorandum of understanding to this effect, including the irrevocable guarantee to depositors, was lodged with the Isle of Man Government. I include a copy below sent to me by Derbyshire Offshore Limited.

"(ii) The reference to the Derbyshire Building society having given an irrevocable and binding undertaking to ensure that, while Derbyshire Offshore remains its subsidiary, it will at all time be able to discharge its financial obligations as they fall due will no longer apply but will be replaced by reference to Kaupthing hf having given an irrevocable and binding undertaking to ensure that, while Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander (Isle of Man) Limited remains its subsidiary, it will at all times be able to discharge its financial obligations as they fall due".

I believe this is a legally binding guarantee and as HMG is responsible for the international affairs of the Isle of Man, I would be grateful if you would include depositors with KSFIoM in your legal actions to recover moneys owed in the United Kingdom.

Yours faithfully,

Hoots MacBiggles (!)

richiyeh

Guys, I don't want to rain on your parade here but who on earth do you think is going to buy up the train-wreck? What do they get for their money, desirable brand names? Get real.
My other point is that the IOM authorities need to think very carefully about what they do here. Even if the 50k compensation scheme is worth a damn, it will limit future deposits to that level at best.
A previous poster commented that IOM/Channel Islands depositors could be the only people in the whole world that lose out...that could well be true unfortunately.

donal_f

stanley317 wrote: »

I've just been going through the new IoM FSA Act and there is a statement that a claimant has to provide sufficient documentary edivence as part of the claims procedure. Part of the rationale for the interest rate on the Edge accounts was the lack of branches and unnecesary paperwork. I have just realised that I have no documentary evidence (i.e. bank statements) as to the current amount in my instant access account and 1 year bond. They have now taken down the web site so I cannot even log in and print screen captures.

Can anybody comment on this issue?

P.S. I would appreciate it if people could keep their opinions to themselves in ralation to my lack of judgement in this scenario.

An interesting question? could be even worse for those of us whose account records show we transferred funds out this week - but where the funds haven't (and probably won't) been received by the destination bank. Going to be a bit of reconciliation required?

occamsrazor

richiyeh wrote: »

Guys, I don't want to rain on your parade here but who on earth do you think is going to buy up the train-wreck? What do they get for their money, desirable brand names? Get real.
My other point is that the IOM authorities need to think very carefully about what they do here. Even if the 50k compensation scheme is worth a damn, it will limit future deposits to that level at best.
A previous poster commented that IOM/Channel Islands depositors could be the only people in the whole world that lose out...that could well be true unfortunately.

I wouldn't say there's much of a sunny parade going on here... just a bunch of people facing loss of their savings trying to do what little they can not to lose everything...

As for buying up the train-wreck - well, we don't actually know how much of a train-wreck it is. Most of the offshore operation is, I imagine, deposit-taking therefore the Isle of Man operation itself may be in reasonable shape, with the exception of loans made to the UK arm which is now in the hands of the UK Govt and therefore something, theoretically, could be worked out.

We just do not currently know how much of the KSF(IoM) funds were able to be isolated from Kaupthing HF (Iceland) before the collapse....

wtf_2-2

Why then did ING step in with KE in the UK - also damaged goods.

occamsrazor

stanley317 wrote: »

I have just realised that I have no documentary evidence (i.e. bank statements) as to the current amount in my instant access account and 1 year bond. They have now taken down the web site so I cannot even log in and print screen captures.

I took the precaution of printing off screen captures each day over the last few days. I say that not meant to be smug, we're all in the same sinking boat here. To be honest I wouldn't worry - I presume the liquidator will have control and access to KSF(IoM)'s records and can work it out. It may be worth now printing out any transaction details of transfers to your KSF accounts from your other banks though, just in case.

richiyeh

!!!!!! wrote: »

Why then did ING step in with KE in the UK - also damaged goods.

Probably the UK end had most of the funds intact. The IOM operation is unlikely to have deployed the funds locally and would have channelled them to either UK or (most likely in recent times) Iceland.

Knife_Edge

richiyeh wrote: »

Probably the UK end had most of the funds intact. The IOM operation is unlikely to have deployed the funds locally and would have channelled them to either UK or (most likely in recent times) Iceland.

I'm afraid I don't understand the logic here. Why would the UK have most of the funds intact and the IOM not?

(1) A bank needs to lend the money it takes on deposit to be able to earn the money it pays as interest, so the UK arm would have had to invest the deposits somewhere as much as the IOM

(2) If the IOM funds were channelled (i.e. lent) to the UK or Iceland group companies, then that means the IOM has a claim for them back