First-time house renovation

ukmaggie45

typeractive wrote: »

Thanks Maggie - think it's gonna get a lot worse before any better given this mornings events

Sounds ominous! :eek: Anything to do with the high winds?

There's a massive poplar branch looks like it's breaking off the tree at the end of our garden. OH has informed the University (it's in the land round some Halls of Residence) and they will ask their security people to keep an eye on it when they patrol as the Estate Office is closed till Jan 3rd.

Hejo

Hi all, happy new year and all that,

Thanks for the kind messages from you all, I've been reading the thread and it’s interesting and reassuring to see that we aren’t the only ones who have had issues. Wish I’d found it earlier!

To be honest I have spent the last few months thinking we have been uniquely stupid/gullible as our builder has strung us along and we’ve let him.

To date we have extended back 2 storeys, converted the loft and put in another bathroom. The initial work was relatively on time but after 3 months the attendance dwindled to a couple of days a week and then a litany of "illnesses" and lies ensued. One of his subbies confirmed he was working elsewhere. Several subbies walked off the job as he either wasn’t supplying their materials quickly enough or paying them! Several times we have had to buy materials for subbies as hasn’t supplied them - project management has been adhoc at best, thankfully the structural work is almost done, just a handful of jobs left and some snags. Now he has told me that he has run out of money as he underpriced the job and we owe him for extras - a list that he scribbled off the back of an envelope - and would like paying in advance as he is skint. Checking companies house I’ve found that he has dissolved his company. He is still working though! He damaged the glass in some of the new windows and I want it replaced. If he has dissolved his company can I do anything legally?

I also have the same problem as typeractive – Don’t know what we’ll do about gas/elec certs - sorry to hear about your issues – the last paragraph of your message really resonates with me! I don’t feel like getting up most mornings as it is just grinding me down.

Sorry about the rant…:o

Leif

Hejo wrote: »

To be honest I have spent the last few months thinking we have been uniquely stupid/gullible ...

I think you have strong competition ... (given my own naive behaviour this year).

Hejo wrote: »

To date we have extended back 2 storeys, converted the loft and put in another bathroom. The initial work was relatively on time but after 3 months the attendance dwindled to a couple of days a week and then a litany of "illnesses" and lies ensued. One of his subbies confirmed he was working elsewhere. Several subbies walked off the job as he either wasn’t supplying their materials quickly enough or paying them! Several times we have had to buy materials for subbies as hasn’t supplied them - project management has been adhoc at best, thankfully the structural work is almost done, just a handful of jobs left and some snags. Now he has told me that he has run out of money as he underpriced the job and we owe him for extras - a list that he scribbled off the back of an envelope - and would like paying in advance as he is skint. Checking companies house I’ve found that he has dissolved his company. He is still working though! He damaged the glass in some of the new windows and I want it replaced. If he has dissolved his company can I do anything legally?

To state the obvious, he is untrustworthy. The fact that he has not told you that his company has been dissolved is worrying. He might owe people money, and he might be trying to cadge it from you.

Assuming you have paid for the work done, I would get rid of him, and find someone else. If he did the original work, and caused damage, while his company was active, then I don't think you have any comeback, as he has no personal liability. You need to check the documents/quotes/contracts you have.

It all sounds odd as there are rules about dissolving companies. Unless I am mistaken, a company cannot trade for several months prior to dissolution, as that gives creditors time to object, so if he did work for you in that period, then I assume he was committing an offence. You could contact Companies House and ask for advice, after you check your documents.

ukmaggie45

Hejo, just want to offer you some "positive vibes" as don't have any help or suggestions to offer. Sorry. Cyber hugs coming your way if you feel able to accept such. :grouphug:

Leif, sorry you have had probs too. :grouphug:

I think we were very lucky with our builder, but he'd done an extension on a Grade II Listed building for DD2 and SiL so we knew his work was good.

Suspect a lot more small builders will go under as the recession bites more. And plumbers and sparks too.

Here's hoping all of the Renovators have a Wonderful New Year and all problems get dealt with superfast and really soon!

Best wishes from the wilds of Liverpool

typeractive

Hejo wrote: »

I also have the same problem as typeractive – Don’t know what we’ll do about gas/elec certs - sorry to hear about your issues – the last paragraph of your message really resonates with me! I don’t feel like getting up most mornings as it is just grinding me down.

Ok - so we're not alone! :j Bare with my 'positive support'. Pulling out the plus points from your post a lot oft he big work is done. Snags and bits n bobs left. Now...if you're anything like me - these are the things that will really upset you. The larger problems don't seem to worry me as much as the little things - I can't understand it (yes I'm sure there will be some psycological analysis that would suggest why - but let's forget that for the moment).

As hurtful as it is, my 'advice' might be to accept it. I know loads of people on internet forums are really blunt when they say stuff like that. It really annoys me when there is little to no compassion wrote with the delivery. So I understand how that feels as I type it. If you do accept it, and think - stuff him to move on. Then you can at least start to resolve the problem. It could be worse - he could have left you without the big work done. As for the certificates. Well I've been thinking about all this - there are people out there that will come and check it all, make adjustments and certify it safe if ya need it. If that guy was to die a painful death and never be around anymore (now now, stop wishing ) would the world end? No - it wouldn't. You'd find someone else to help.

And yes I know people will shout and scream at my post of: "who would check someone else's work and certify it safe as their own?" (I've had such responses. I'm not talking about someone dodgy, I'm saying with more research you *might* find someone more trustworthy, who will support you.

It's amazing how some things affect people. I've been really chewed up and I think it's more so the feeling of trying to get someone who's being naughty to change and rectify the situation. I think that is what upsets me more than the situation we're left with. It's all about being in control of the situation I guess. So, perhaps we need to gain control again? I'm not saying my problem is going to be instantly fixed and there won't be more heartache, with money to be spent etc.

Sorry about the rant…:o

Don't be. Most forums on the internet are to report problems and seek solutions. It's rare someone will start a thread - look at my trouble free house conversion... It's the story and journey on the way.

As for the joker of a builder asking for more money, I'd be tempted to write return to sender on that scrappy envelope. Cheeky ******.

I know it's tough fella. It really is. I nearly cancelled visiting some mates as I was so annoyed etc, but I went (even though I felt poorly), and it did help by getting out and having a little change.

Suspect a lot more small builders will go under as the recession bites more. And plumbers and sparks too.

Hopefully the cowboys Maggie. As cautious as we are, it's still a game of luck. I've had 3 recommendations of joiners who haven't been up to standard. 2 Plumbers. A mixture of cheaper and more expensive labour. So not always a case of you get what you pay for.

In fact my electrician is NIC registered, put in LOADS of downlights, sockets, network cable and alarm for £300 cheaper than the nearest quote which was basically a pendant in each room and 3 double sockets.

Only happy with my builder, electrician and plasterer. I won't consider anyone else but them - still on the hunt for other good trades.

All the best for the New Year everyone.

Hejo

Thank you all once again. It’s surprised me how much messages on an internet forum can help, I know this sounds dramatic but this board has restored my faith in humanity!

Leif, I think you are right. In hindsight I think he was on the verge of going under but we came along and threw him a lifeline. Once we'd paid the deposit for the work we got sucked into wanting to believe he was kosher and psychologically it became harder to see what was happening as it would mean admitting we'd screwed up and were going to have to pay more! - builder Stockholm Syndrome! He came recommended so we thought we'd been savvy! I will see where we stand with companies house. I hope you get comeback legally with your cowboys!

Maggie, cyberhugs gratefully accepted and reciprocated. Glad to hear that your job went well.

Typeractive - thank you. You’ve got it in one. I’ve been counting the positives for a while and have to keep reminding myself it’s not THAT bad. The house is watertight, major works are done, roof hasn't fallen in, he's not run off halfway through or with the whacking great deposit we were dumb enough to give him. Compared to the people you see on Cowboy Builders and some of the posters here we have got off lightly. But you're right. The little things do bug me - the lying, the shoddy finishing off, the messing us about, the months and months of sleepless nights, the days waiting around and wondering what would happen. And our behaviour annoys me too! My gullibility, the second chances, the way I let him continue on the job because I thought it would be too difficult to get someone else. Arrghh!

And breathe…

typeractive wrote: »

Ok - so we're not alone! :j Bare with my 'positive support'. Pulling out the plus points from your post a lot oft he big work is done. Snags and bits n bobs left. Now...if you're anything like me - these are the things that will really upset you. The larger problems don't seem to worry me as much as the little things - I can't understand it (yes I'm sure there will be some psycological analysis that would suggest why - but let's forget that for the moment).



It's amazing how some things affect people. I've been really chewed up and I think it's more so the feeling of trying to get someone who's being naughty to change and rectify the situation. I think that is what upsets me more than the situation we're left with. It's all about being in control of the situation I guess. So, perhaps we need to gain control again? I'm not saying my problem is going to be instantly fixed and there won't be more heartache, with money to be spent etc.


.

I suppose we have to accept it. We do need to move on. We should be focussing on getting out of this rut; choosing colours, decorating, enjoying the house. If that means finishing the final stuff off ourselves, and paying out again then so be it. We've been in limbo for so long we have to gain control back and get a move on! Part of me is twitching though - thinking cheeky !!!!!, I'm not being made a mug of,. but if he's wound his company up I dont think there is much I can do, plus I'm sick to the back teeth of thinking about him.


Again you’ve got it in one -it’s the feeling of being scammed and the loss of control that gets to me. Even silly things like the Indian summer we had last October got to me. I'd look at the sunshine, then be p'd off that we couldn’t enjoy it because we were still being dicked about with the house, then I'd get annoyed with myself for letting it happen, then annoyed for being annoyed!

I really hope you find some decent trades Typeractive. Thanks (and Maggie and Leif) for taking the time to reply to me. It has helped give me a kick up the !!!! I needed.

typeractive

Hejo wrote: »

Thank you all once again. It’s surprised me how much messages on an internet forum can help, I know this sounds dramatic but this board has restored my faith in humanity!

That's good. As there are usually more people out there that revel in the ability to tell you how stupid you've been / how the world is gonna end etc. The fact is we can't all get it right all the first time unfortunately. As much as we try. You allowed the guy to carry on as you believed in mankind and that eventually he will come to his senses. Sometimes we have to take a bit of a leap of faith with this. For example I'm not pressuing the !!! of a plumber I have, yet if he comes back I won't pay until I'm fully satisfied. If he doesn't I'll report him. He has more to lose than me, and yes it will be a headache.

Fully understand the frustrations. I'm the same. Completely. One of my sisters friends who have been visiting just banged my car door off the wall when parking outside my house. The paint is scuffed. I noticed, but nobody else did - and I didn't want to make a scene. I've told my sis who has offered to pay, but it would be unfair as it's a tiny graze to anyone else but to me it's a big deal. If I did - I'd have felt so guilty I'd have owned up straight away.

Hejo

Thanks again. True! I was wary of posting as I thought people would just tell me I’d brought it on myself and been a bit of a berk! It has been a lesson learned. We took our time choosing him, thought we had been careful, ah well. Yes, it is a leap of faith, and a fine line between being assertive to get a good job done/too aggressive so you stop them doing a good job or being a pushover so they think they can get away with crap.

Sorry to hear you’ve had more problems. It can feel like someone’s stuck a rain cloud full of broken mirrors above you sometimes. Some evil scrote backed into my parked car, then drove off. A few weeks later I got clamped because Id forgotten to pay my car tax! Heres to a better 2012! And good luck with the plumber!

Leif

Work out the worst case scenario and then work your way up from there. I find that approach helps.

The building trade is not known for high quality well priced work. Everyone tells me it is hard to find a good builder/plasterer/plumber. It is so easy for a trades person to do a so so job, without the householder realising it, as there is almost no independent assessment, and little in the way of qualifications required. A significant proportion of the people I know do work themselves, including fit kitchens, fit bathrooms, install central heating pipes, and so on. And it is not just to save money. I recently saw a friends attic conversion, and his architrave and door hanging knocked spots off pros work (and mine). I will be visiting their house more often, as seeing things such as an exposed lath and plaster ceiling is educational, as is seeing the semi-bodged CH pipe work done by pros! (They asked a plumber to install a boiler. He put it in the wrong place, and did not chase pipes into walls.)

latecomer

typeractive wrote: »

I'm on a serious roll of bad luck these past few months. Every single, tiny detail that can go wrong - has done. No joke. Sick to the back teeth. I'm not only talking about the house either, work rest and play - the lot.

I can only hope for a decent new year. Everyone says, "it's not that bad / it'll get better / the house is nearly done" yadda yadda yadda but they aren't the ones working, saving, paying and waiting. Feel like my life has been on hold so much recently - I question is it worth it?

I understand your feelings completely. I have come to the conclusion that our house is jinxed and hence once we sell everything will get better

Down side is the boiler packed in and Ferroli wont honour the warranty as its over 12 months (just) since it was serviced. Apparently they are going down the pan and good riddance to them.