advice for ds been put off course after 1st lecture!

Nenen

Thank you so much for that post dmv... I'm going to copy and paste it to my son!

I can quite understand the lecturers wanting to 'put the fear of God' into the students and ensure they know they have to work hard. Some students have no idea what hard work is but I guess that it's the more conscientious ones who take these sort of warnings to heart! In fact my ds has always been a worker (he is certainly no quitter) as long as he feels encouraged by his teachers. He is just the sort of person who is far more motivated by the carrot of prasie than by the stick of threats! However, I know lecturers at uni haven't got time or patience to 'mollycoddle' students and somewhere along the way he has to grow up a bit and learn for his own sake and not because he likes and wants to please the teacher!

He's managed to get 3 decent 'A' levels while holding down a part-time job as a kitchen porter and had already got himself a job in the student union bar at Loughborough before he went. In that sense he is very well disciplined and motivated. He's also seen his dad and I work around 50-55 hours each per week on average so he knows he'll get little sympathy from me about hard work! However, even given my work ethic, I can acknowledge that it's difficult for anyone to go from working around 30 hours to 45+ overnight... one takes a while to adjust to the new pace and I'm sure he's not alone in worrying about whether or not he will manage..

I must say it made me laugh when I went for an interview to do a masters degree recently and the lecturer told me in very sombre tones that it entailed working 40 hours per week... I wanted to tell her (although didn't dare) that would mean a rest for me!

Anyway, I really appreciate all the replies and will post back (soon I hope) to let you know what he decides.... I know how frustrating it is to read these threads and post advice and then never hear the end result! :beer:

GlasweJen

our lecturer did this, it's a scare tactic to get you to work. Ask your son to stick to it at least as far as the first assessment and see how he goes from there.

bristol_pilot

This is why an engineering degree from Loughborough is highly regarded and graduates sought after! (I work in engineering and know some of the staff at Loughborough). It is an excellent preparation for working as an engineer.

My advice would be - don't miss anything. Attend all lectures, tutorials and problem classes. If there is remedial maths, computing or anything else offered then go, even if you don't think you will need it or it is optional.

It will be 9-5:30 every day (except maybe one day a week may be a half day) and there will be evening work as well. However, the evening work will probably not need to be done on a particular evening so you can have a good social life as well.

It may seem harsh to chuck out ~25% after the first year, but really this is a much better policy than allowing weak students to continue for another 2-3 years of struggle then only get a poor degree or even fail. Its good to hear that the better universities - those that keep up standards - are still doing this.

Oldernotwiser

A foundation year is going to be very intense as it's going to be at least equivalent to doing Maths and Science A levels in one year. If he completes this year he'll have the choice of a variety of degrees in both Humanities and Science, having perhaps taken a gap year after he's done the foundation.

littlebird22

I think he should try and stick at it a bit longer. Apart from the fact that he is scared of the amount of work how is he finding it? I presume that the lecturer went on to give some actual engineering content after the scare tactics. Even then though, you need to try a few lectures before you know if it is for you or not, you have some good lectures and you have some bad ones. If it is the work that he is worried about though then switching to Law might not be the best plan. I have friends doing it and it entails long days AND really dull and heavy content. It really is merely a means to an end (or so I have heard). I firmly believe that students on vocational degrees have to work far harder than others but remember if he was say a History student, he may not be having so many lectures but there would be a lot of independent work to do; the grass is definitely not always greener. At least with engineering he has a highly structured day and this may help him not to fall behind; the exact thing he is worried about. Finally, I am doing teacher training and my lecture yesterday was all about motivation and statistically (whether you agree with the method or not) children who are told that they have no talent in a subject achieve more because they work harder to prove themselves. Do you think that the lecturer could have been trying to invoke this response from the students?

farso

Hi

I did the Foundation in Engineering though nottingham, and passed. In my time, I did find it to be lots of work, but there is plenty of opportunity to learn the required materials.

Basically, if he can do some maths - generally intergration and differentiation - plus a few other bits at reasonable levels then he should have no problem.

I think out of my whole course, no-one failed who actually attended the majority of the lectures.. So thats my first bit of advice.

The scare stories that he has been told about the difficulties of the course are perhaps a warning that there is going to be hard work involved rather than the amount of work involved is above anyones station.

Having gone though the foundation route I sympathise with him, and wish him all the best. If you do need to know anything else about how it all works, id be happy to help by email/phone if needed!

Good luck!!

Nenen

littlebird22 wrote: »

Finally, I am doing teacher training and my lecture yesterday was all about motivation and statistically (whether you agree with the method or not) children who are told that they have no talent in a subject achieve more because they work harder to prove themselves. Do you think that the lecturer could have been trying to invoke this response from the students?

Thanks for your input Littlebird. As a teacher myself I am very keen to have more information on the research that shows that children who are told they have no talent in a subject achieve more. Whilst I think there are a few people for whom this might work, my experience would suggest the complete opposite in the vast majority of cases. Please can you give me any links to the research on this?

dmv_2

Another thing to add, as above posters have said he really does need to attend all lectures. Most lecturers post their notes online so students think they can catch up from them but these notes are often literally the bare bones and are no where near as detailed as a students own notes had they attended. Also my lecturers have said that they get to know at least most peoples faces throughout the year and when they get a student asking for help with a re-sit if they dont recognise you they presume that you were skipping classes and getting someone else to sign you in and therefore will give you a lot less help than someone they knew attended.

Also every course (even engineering though not quite to the same degree) will often tell you that you need to put in more hours than you actually do on a regular basis. eg when assignments are due you will be doing a lot more work then than other weeks so it all evens out. I just finished my first year with a 68 average which is seen to be good as is just off a first. Basically what I'm saying is he will have some weeks which are lighter than others so although there will be a lot of hard work it will not be constant 24/7.

I (really) dont like some of my subjects whereas there are others that I love so he really does need to give it time and stick it out - it is very rare for a student to enjoy all of their course all of the time, life just is not like that. Whilst I am not saying stick at it if he hates it, I am saying he needs to look at the bigger picture eg what getting that degree will allow him to do in life.

I really hope he finds his way, whatever way that is.

dmv

oh and he is lucky to have a mum that obviously cares so much x

morg_monster

I just wanted to add that I was at nottingham, (not doing engineering), but know lots of people who did and yes they definitely had the highest workload, except perhaps for medics. They'll definitely get wednesday afternoon off - especially at Loughborough! (thats when all the sports happen).
Moral of the story - not many of the engineers I know are working in engineering, but all have really good jobs and are earning really well, even those who left with 2:2s or even 3rds. It is a fantastic degree to have, as others have said. He should keep going until he gets some kind of assessment to gauge how he's doing, and definitely til his tutor gets back!!

farso

morg_monster wrote: »

I just wanted to add that I was at nottingham, (not doing engineering), but know lots of people who did and yes they definitely had the highest workload, except perhaps for medics. They'll definitely get wednesday afternoon off - especially at Loughborough! (thats when all the sports happen).
Moral of the story - not many of the engineers I know are working in engineering, but all have really good jobs and are earning really well, even those who left with 2:2s or even 3rds. It is a fantastic degree to have, as others have said. He should keep going until he gets some kind of assessment to gauge how he's doing, and definitely til his tutor gets back!!

Personally, i dont think the workload is that bad, it does take up at least a few hours of each day. I currently have approx 16hrs lectures this term with another 6 hrs of labs occasionally. This was very similar to the timetable during most of the foundation course.

Your son has been selected by the uni for being seen to be capable of the work. He has already proved himself of being able to do the a-level standard (at a high level) so theres no reason he shouldnt be able to do the work - although it will take a little time.

Its also very true that engineers get a varity of jobs after. My uni's figures show something like 15% go into banking after graduation.. £££!!