advice for ds been put off course after 1st lecture!

Nenen

I'm hoping someone here could help me advise my son who started at Loughborough university two days ago and rang me in a state today.

He's the youngest of three and both his older siblings have already been to uni, so I'm used to dealing with the initial concerns, homesickness etc, but I think this goes much deeper than that for ds. He has gone to do a 4 yr mechanical engineering degree which includes a foundation year as his 'A' levels did not contain enough science (he did very well in all 3 sciences plus maths and double engineering at GCSE but then decided against keeping them all up but regreted some of his choices of 'A' Levels halfway through)!

When he went for an initial visit he thought the engineering department was great and the lecturer that showed him and my dh round was really keen and enthusiastic about everything. My son found him inspiring and was delighted to get his place. However, in today's inaugaral lecture the students (there are about 160 doing foundation science/maths) were told they would have to work 9 - 5.30 everyday in lectures, plus do work in the evenings and that it would be extremely hard with more than 25% failing the exams and another 25% dropping out. :eek::eek: Given that Loughborough is supposed to be top of student satisfaction surveys and has an extremely low drop out rate I find this hard to believe. I'm wondering if the lecturer was just trying to frighten the students into working hard (some are doing foundation because their grades at science were lower than expected) or if there is another reason.

In my son's case it has made him doubt himself and his capabilities (he has always struggled to believe he is as intelligent as his brother although actually he is). He is now talking about changing course entirely if they'll let him and possibly doing psychology (he got an 'A' for psychology 'A' level so is a little more confident in his ability in that). Obviously it will be more difficult for him to find work with a psychology degree but I'm happy to support him in whatever he wants to do. I'd just like him to be able to make an informed choice and not be panicked into anything he might later regret.

He did try to go to see his personal tutor this afternoon but apparently he isn't in uni until the middle of next week (very helpful I'm sure)! :rolleyes: He has been to see the careers person today but they've just told him he'll be unlikely to get into psychology as it's extremely oversubscribed. He left a message with the psychology department as there was no one available to talk to him and is waiting to hear back.

If anyone can give me any information about the foundation engineering at Loughborough or anything that might help ds to make an informed choice I'd be really grateful.:beer:

bestpud

Sounds like a typical 'don't think it is all going to be fun or plain sailing' line to me.

The frustrating part is it probably went straight over the heads of those who needed to hear it!!

Maybe suggest he sticks it out until he can meet with his personal tutor as another week is not going to be the end of the world, even if he does still decide to change. In fact he may stand more chance of changing then, as other people drop out or make changes etc.

Hopefully his personal tutor will take the time to discuss the course fully with him and reassure him he is capable of completing the work.

If it is mostly a confidence issue there is always the counselling service too. You may have to convince him he doesn't have to be in a crisis to go there though!

Voyager2002

Firstly, degrees in science and engineering are highly structured, and there is a great deal of hard work involved. The workload is indeed like having a full-time job with some work for the evenings, and the tutor was right to spell out the reality.

Other degrees are equally demanding in their own way, but perhaps involve less time spent on drudgery. However, if your son really wants to be an engineer he will have to put in the hours and the effort: there is no other way to develop the skills needed to design (say) an aeroplane that will be safe for its passengers.

Secondly, if he is so lacking in direction that in the course of a day he decides to switch from Engineering to Psychology, he needs to spend more time discovering himself and exploring different options before committing to a specific course. A year out might be a good idea, perhaps combined with taking some different 'A' levels to widen his experience of different subjects. Or he could consider something like Keele, where the first year is an introduction to different subjects so that students can discover what is right for them.

Thirdly, getting an A in Psychology is an achievement. Consider what skills this demonstrates: with words, or using statistics and scientific reasoning? Are these skills the same as those needed to do well in Engineering? If his Psychology course was mostly around writing essays and analysing written material, perhaps he should look at options like Law.

Gingernutmeg

I'd imagine that the lecture was simply just as you say, to scare the students into taking the course seriously. I remember my first lectures at uni, I came away thinking I was NEVER going to cope and believing that I'd never be clever enough to pass, and I nearly ran off in tears at one point as I couldn't find the lecture room and I ended up being a few minutes late for the lecture (along with nearly everyone else lol!). I think it's really easy to get a bit overwhelmed during the first week at uni because there's so much to take in, I remember when we were taken through outlines of the course and I thought that there was no way I'd ever get through that much work. I think you just have to remind yourself that this is what you're expected to achieve in X number of years, and not by the end of the week! I'd imagine that this is just a case of first-week nerves, and once your son has settled in he'll start to feel a bit more confident, once he's found his level and some friends.

One thing I would say is that Psychology at degree level is very different from Psychology at A-Level - I know that the degree has a heavy maths/science component (I went to a uni that's well known for Psychology and had a lot of friends taking it, so I heard all of their moans about the course lol). I'd suggest that he really finds out about the course before he swaps as potentially, if maths and science aren't his strong points, he could find himself in the same situation. I know of a fair few people who dropped the Psychology parts of their degrees as it was too different from the style and content of the A-Level.

Incisor

Engineering is probably one of the hardest degree courses, so the warning was probably justified, but ineptly presented.

What A levels did he get and how did his grades turnout, especially Math? The Math is absolutely critical here. Some universities did take people on in Engineering with Math grades which were too low, just to keep numbers up. I don't know now whether this is the case, but it is something to watch out for.

Give it a week and see whether he comes to a more developed view. If it still doesn't feel good, then perhaps he would do well to stop immediately and take a year out as Voyager says. There is nothing like being passionate about something as a foundation for success.

Nenen

Thanks for the rapid advice everyone... It's a relief to know that you are all saying/thinking along the same lines as me. It's so difficult to disentangle the emotions when it's one's own child!

Voyager2002 wrote: »

Secondly, if he is so lacking in direction that in the course of a day he decides to switch from Engineering to Psychology, he needs to spend more time discovering himself and exploring different options before committing to a specific course. A year out might be a good idea, perhaps combined with taking some different 'A' levels to widen his experience of different subjects. Or he could consider something like Keele, where the first year is an introduction to different subjects so that students can discover what is right for them.

I couldn't agree more Voyager! The problem is he has always found it difficult to settle to something and stick with it... For several years now he's swung between wanting a career in engineering, law and/or (more recently) psychology but whatever he decides on the grass is always greener! :rolleyes: He's also one of those children who is quite good at most subjects but not outstanding at anything in particular!

At 14 he was set and determined to do law and so arranged for work experience in a solicitor's office. After three weeks of helping the secretaries with filing (I did try to warn him he wouldn't be asked to be Rumpole) he said he didn't want to do law anymore.

He decided he wanted a more practical subject and concentrated on science and engineering. He did well in his GCSEs but got disheartened because he only got a 'C' grade for maths (was predicted an 'A') and so decided he did want to do Law after all! He then dropped all his sciences (against all advice from me and his teachers) and took Law, Sociology, Psychology and Use of Maths. He loved Law for the first year and was doing really well (he had a brilliant ex-barrister for a tutor) but, after she left and he had a series of supply teachers, his work went downhill rapidly (along with all the other students on the course) and he lost all belief in his ability.

He then wanted to take psychology at uni but was put off by the careers department telling him that it is now the most popular degree course and very difficult to get a job with. Despite us telling him that if he enjoys the subject that should not put him off he decided to look again at engineering and managed to get on this foundation course.

I really tried to get him to take a gap year as I felt he was still too undecided and unfocused... but he was determined he wanted to go straight to uni. I think he feels he has something to prove as both his older siblings (as well as both my dh and I) have done degrees although his dad and I really try not to put any pressure on him to 'follow in their/our footsteps'.

When I spoke to him earlier today I told him he should think seriously about taking a gap year (although it would be a bit difficult to organise anyhting meaningful given very limited finances at this late stage).

I think Bestpud and Gingernutmeg are right and that he needs to do a week or two before he 'jumps out of the frying pan into the fire'! Trouble is, the longer he leaves it the more difficult it will be to catch up if he changes courses. Oh... how much easier it was to help my children when they were toddlers!

currynchips

Yes. He is now reading for a degree. It is not going to be plain sailing and I commend his lecturers for spelling out the hard work that precedes them. There are many degrees that are bloody hard work and this appears to be one of them.
No one earns money without hard work, and if he doesn't fancy it, then he should accept a lower income. However if he has done well at A level, then he is clearly capable of working hard and this is simply the next step up.

There are plenty of 9-5 workers who not only commute 2 hours per day(making an 8-6 day), but also graft through the night also learning what they can to be good at their jobs.

If he is scared after one lecture, he is a quitter.

robpw2

i hope he decides soon , the worst thing is to stay at something because you think you have too.

i think he will only regret the things hes not done and if hes wants to change or thinks he should he should speak to both course tutors as they will be able to give advise of when is best etc.

also tell him to contact the students union as they will be able to give advise also

robpw2

currynchips wrote: »

If he is scared after one lecture, he is a quitter.

i disagree , going to university is not an easy step and not all about lectures

children suddenly have to deal with the big wide world on their own and are suddenly expected to be adults, You move to a new town with new people and you are expected to look after yourself etc

not only that you have to attend lectures which are much harder and much tougher than anything you have ever been through in college.
if someone tells you how 25% of you will fail your first year when your already worked up about having to deal with university then i wouldnt say he was a quitter infact i would say he was human , doubts in your abilities are natural and to be told that you will fail does not help your doubts,

Lokolo

robpw2 wrote: »

i disagree , going to university is not an easy step and not all about lectures

children suddenly have to deal with the big wide world on their own and are suddenly expected to be adults, You move to a new town with new people and you are expected to look after yourself etc

I'm sorry but before I came to university I knew what a trip box was (i call it trip box, fuse box also), however, after moving in with 4 other people. none of these other 4 knew what it was.

Thats what makes me thinks. What to these parents teach these kids!?!

I sorted gas electric, phone, broadband, rent and house deposits. Its scary to think some of these are the same age as me!!

However back to the OP. Obviously the university doesn't want the students to think they're here for the ride, yeh obviously they want to have a fun time, but they're also there to get a degree.

I am sure they won't actually work 9-5.30 but if you think about it, thats no different from a any normal job.

Tell your son to stick with it. After a month of 2 I bet he will be loving it.

dmv_2

My fiance has just completed a medical and mechanical engineering degree so this is what he has just said...

Apart from medicine and possibly law, engineering is the hardest degree. It is also very highly recognised...even a bare pass is viewed well.

My fiance did very well and also made friends with the lecturers who admitted that they (as in all engineering staff) put the fear of god into students because they have absolutely no time or patience for those students who do not give 100%. Yes he will have to work HARD but his lecturer will be also laying it on a bit thick. I on the other hand am a social sciences student and had no such fear put into me

Please encourage him to stick it out...it will get better and it really is the most prestigious degree he could obtain.

Hope that helps,

dmv.