First credit debt collection :(

debtman2007

Received this letter today for one of my Citi accounts now held by 1st credit. Incidently this came direct from Citi in Derby.

Anyone care to take a look and tell me exactly where this leaves me. To be honest it doesn't make a great of sense to me. Also there is certainly no signed document anywhere.

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Thank you for your recent request for information. We regret to inform you that section 78 CCA 1974 does not require CitiFinancial to provide you with a copy if the executed agreement as you appear to belive. It requires CitiFinancial to provide you with a "copy of the executed agreement" as defined by the Cusomer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. the olbligation to provide you that document is fulfilled by the provision of teh terms and conditions, which are supplied on customers upon reissue or issue of their card, being printed on teh card carrier.
we enclose a copy of the terms and conditions for your account. this is an industry standard document and conforms to the Regulations. We set out below a summary of teh same for your information.

180 Power to prescribe form etc of copies.
(1) Regulations may be made as to the form and content of documents to be issued as copies of any executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act, and may in particualr -
(a) require specified information to be included in teh prescribed manner in any copy , and contain requirements to ensure that such information is clearly brought to the attention of a reader of teh copy;
(b) authorise teh omission from a copy of certain material contained in teh original, or the inclusion of such material in condensed form.

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 make it clear at Reg 3 that the "copy executed agreement" is not required to be an exact replica of teh original agreement per se but an extract since it is allowed to omit certain information including any signature box, signature, or date of signature

yours Sincerely

Data Request Team

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Then follows 15 pages of terms and conditions.

Any advice please?

pepe2008

as far as I understand this just means that they do not have to get a new agreement signed on the issue of a new card. There is, I believe, some argument that whenever there is a change to the Account ( interest rate, required payment rate or interval, or the issue of a new card and therefore an extension of the agreement ) there should be a new or revised agreement signed.
This does not remove the need for a Legally Binding Agreement to be in place at the start of the relationship between you and the Original Creditor.

Be interesting to see if someone with more knowledge replies.
If not, maybe NDL or CCCS?
How about posting on the 'ask a CCCS Counsellor' thread.

debtman2007

thanks, will do.

moneymare

Here is the letter
___________________________________________________________________

Thank you for your letter of the 20th October 2008.

We are not prepared to refund you any monies paid towards this debt. I note that on 2nd September 2008 you requested a copy agreement and will advise that our client has advised us at this stage they are unable to provide the same, therefore the account is not enforceable via the Courts, however, this does not change the fact that the balance remains outstanding and we would invite you to make an offer of payment.

We are not obliged under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to provide you with a full statement of the account detailing all credits and debits. Should you require copy statments, please be advised there is a fee of £10 payable in advance and which we shall have to request from our client.

With regards to your request for a copy of the Deed of Assignment, we would refer you to Section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which provides that the debtor is notified of the assignment of the debt in writing and not a copy of the Deed itself.

It is correct that if the default of the credit agreement continues for one month, that an offence may be committed. However, if an offence is committed, the Act provides defences to any offence which we believe would apply, in this case where we have to obtain documents and information to answer your request from the original creditor.

To address your request to remove the default under s14 DPA and for compensation under s13, we would rely on s13(3)DPA as a defence to any offence committed; "it is a defense to prove that [1st Credit] had taken such care as in all the circumstances was reasonably required to comply with the requirement concerned." At all times 1st Credit has acted in good faith and in the reasonable belief that any actions it took in pursuance of the debt were correct and justified.

You have not specified upon which ground you rely for your notice under s10 of the DPA and therefore we do not consider this valid; furthermore this is not a valid request as it falls under the exemption in Schedule 2 section 2(a) of the Act.

Yours sincerely


Compliance Officer

________________________________________________________________

Thoughts?

pepe2008

moneymare,
paragraph one says it all.
Sometimes it can be overcomplicated....No CCA, No Legal Enforcement.
of course they would like you to 'enter in to a repayment plan, something is better than nothing, and thats precisely what they are currently entitled to.

londoner38

I need advise too. First credit called me yesterday with regards to a debt i had with Citi Cards. They really scared me. I owe £4k. Demanded i pay it all by 8.30pm. I said no way, but paid them £800 by debit card and said I would pay the rest today. I managed to borrow the remaining money.
Now reading all these posts I wonder if it's too late to ask for a CCA as I have paid them some money and therefore have acknowledged the debt.
PLEASE HELP - do I call today and pay remaining amount, do i see if I can get a settlement figure, or do i just send the letter???
+

RAS wrote: »

[/b]

Hi

You need to be very careful with 1st credit. as they are taking a lot of people to court, with very little consideration for due process. In one case, the debt was no longer enforceable and in the case above, the debtor has no idea what the debt is but it is probably unenforceable.

This does not mean that you should pay them, in fact it means that you should start by demanding the CCA if the debt is covered by the Act.

The person above is helping with someone whose first notification of action was notice of the court hearing to declare them bankrupt, when they did not even know what the debt was about. Since Ist have failed to produce any documentation for the court case, it will be struck out.

In another case, they actually got the bankruptcy order because the debtor did not even know about the case. That was rescinded and the case thrown out.

So you need to insist that all communication is by letter and start by demanding the CCA.

Although they should not do so 1st credit routinely send out Statuatory Demands which if not challenged can lead to bankruptcy proceedings. So it is vital that you come back for additional advice and talk to NDL if you get any paperwork from 1st credit.

They may not be able to entitled to any more money out of you, but that does not seem to be an issue with 1st credit.

pepe2008

londoner, if you come back on here today I hope that you havn't paid the remainder......that would be the DCA's wet dream.

Did they tell you to borrow more, did they explain evry legal Term that they used, did they explain the Legal Process fully and did they advise you to seek Legal advice. If no, no ,no and no they've done it again. OFT, who they?

this post will bump yo back up the Board, anyone help out there?

RAS

TTC

Was the original barclaycard account in your husband's sole name or was it a joint account?

tunathe_cat

Sole name as far as we can remember it was 25 years ago he opened account

jinny

Hi Sorry if its been asked before but could someone explain what the 12+2+30 rule is? Thanks