Solicitor slow over probate

sdooley

A lot of STEP members are very happy to 'piggyback' on an estate mostly being managed by a local solicitor. 5-10 hours of STEP time @£250/hour plus 30-40 hours of local solicitor @£75-£125/hour is more efficient for their business models than doing the whole probate in house.

The best people i.m.h.o. are the long-standing legal executives, who may not get into tax issues etc but will handle the mechanics cost-effectively. The worst are 'dabblers' who do a bit of conveyancing, bit of probate, bit of boundary disputes, bit of personal injury etc.

ukmaggie45

sloughflint wrote: »

I can't understand why the money will not be sent to you by electronic transfer. I provided the beneficiary's bank details and the transfer was electronic.

Husband had phone call from solicitor - money not got through to his client account yet. Reason why it won't be sent by electronic transfer is that it costs the firm £17.50 to send it that way :mad:. I've told husband to say we'll pay that, I don't want a cheque for a quite large amount to be sent in the ordinary mail - and I don't suppose that they'd use even "signed for" if they're that bloody mean about costs - probably nothing in the vast scheme of what I imagine they are going to charge us anyway. :eek: :mad:

Aaarrrggghhhh! I am fast losing the will to live! I think I would have gone completely bananas if it wasn't for the kindness and support from folks on here.

Thank you all!

:beer: :T :A

ukmaggie45

Thank you again sdooley :A for continuing my education.

sdooley wrote: »

A lot of STEP members are very happy to 'piggyback' on an estate mostly being managed by a local solicitor. 5-10 hours of STEP time @£250/hour plus 30-40 hours of local solicitor @£75-£125/hour is more efficient for their business models than doing the whole probate in house.

The best people i.m.h.o. are the long-standing legal executives, who may not get into tax issues etc but will handle the mechanics cost-effectively. The worst are 'dabblers' who do a bit of conveyancing, bit of probate, bit of boundary disputes, bit of personal injury etc.

Thank you for giving some sort of indication of costs. I think it will be worth it for our state of mind if nothing else! I foresee next week as being full of phone calls!

Checked the STEP website, and have found someone just round the corner from our chap, so will contact them next week when I've done my homework on all the paperwork we have... At least we took copies of all documents signed before sending them back! :j

Off to re-heat some beef stew for tea now, all this reading and posting has left me really hungry!

Thanks again :T

localhero

sdooley wrote:

You need tax advice. He clearly isn't a tax specialist. Many probate solicitors aren't, in which case they should certainly ask for or agree that you ask for specialist advice.

Hang on a minute, probate means settling estates, which invariably involves dealing with at least 3 taxes - IHT being the most common, followed by CGT and income tax.

If solicitors don't even know the basics of those - or deeds of variations for that matter - what on earth are they doing taking on probate work?

Surely if a case lands on their desk which they don't have the expertise to deal with, they should do the honourable thing and step aside and refer the client to someone with the necessary expertise?

In fact if solicitors don't understand these basics which are integral to fulfilling their role, they simply shouldn't be taking on any probate work whatsoever.

If you honestly believe that this individual hasn't been negligent then you and I must be from a different planets. :eek: The OP shelling out for IHT, money which could have been sitting in her bank account - sounds pretty much like a financial loss to me, caused by the solicitors act or omission.

I think it's time that an application was made to the court to get the imbecile removed as an executor, as I can't see him persuading the judge he's fit for purpose.

sloughflint

ukmaggie45 wrote: »

Reason why it won't be sent by electronic transfer is that it costs the firm £17.50 to send it that way :mad:.

He really is one very cheeky so and so. And he clearly hasn't grasped the extent of [strike]the [/strike] his problem since he is not being accommodating to your requests.
I think he might be referring to a CHAPS payment. That would make sense. In my case the beneficiary received the funds on the same day as the solicitor emailed me to say that funds had just been sent.

You mention paying the £17.50. Just remember that you really have been treated appallingly. I think you should perhaps keep in the back of your mind that you should not have to pay a penny for the work completed/CHAPS fees. In one of my experiences, there was no question in my mind that there was going to be payment for the 'work' completed. I was met with no resistance.Remember, you are considering paying over the odds employing a STEP member for what appears to me to be a fairly simple and modest estate ( in STEP terms) to rectify his mess.

As I said before, I would want shot of this 'firm' completely if it is at all possible at this stage. Reading other posters' responses,I think your top priority will be to call the probate office to see how this can be done and timescales involved.I found that the DOV aspect was done very quickly ( matter of days from go-ahead to draft version) but you need a firm idea relating to your specific case.

ukmaggie45 wrote: »

As I said in previous post, I hope others in similar situations may find this thread helpful

I hope so too. Hopefully people might realise that:
1) It is not wise to make a solicitor joint executor. Far better to choose a non professional executor and allow them the choice to pick a professional if they decide they need to.You have now the added difficulty of trying to get this executor removed.
2) Solicitors are not necessarily best suited to draft Wills or deal with probate. This forum is littered with people who continue to believe this;quite stubbornly so.
Which leads me on to:

sdooley wrote: »

The worst are 'dabblers' who do a bit of conveyancing, bit of probate, bit of boundary disputes, bit of personal injury etc.

That makes complete sense. Even worse though are solicitors who claim to specialise in 'Wills and Probate' and charge in the high £100 end per hour and yet make equally fundamentally basic blunders as OP's experiencing.

sdooley wrote: »

The best people i.m.h.o. are the long-standing legal executives, who may not get into tax issues etc but will handle the mechanics cost-effectively.

Probably too late for OP now ( especially with potential CGT considerations) but what exactly are legal executives? Are they more likely to know the limits in their abilities than solicitors? Would they be suitably insured for when problems occur?

ukmaggie45 wrote: »

- it's very hard to know where to turn, and it's also hard to find information on subjects (like probate) that you know nothing about and suddenly need to know a lot about!

I totally sympathise and remember the feeling well.Hopefully this thread can be a starting point for you if you keep adding to it.Don't take everything as gospel ( forums posters or solicitors ). At least you have copies of every single piece of documentation so that's a bonus. You and your husband will be busy for a while longer checking everything.You will soon learn a great deal and realise just how incompetent this man has been.

edit:
If you can get rid of the joint executor, would your husband like to finish off the easy bits ( he's going to be anyway with all the checking), pick a conveyancer of his choice, and let the STEP member just deal with the taxation side? Or would he be happier to bring the STEP member up to speed and deal with the lot? It's a shame that monies have already/in process of being sent to the shoddy firm.Depending on how it all goes, could he open an executor account and get solicitor to transfer all funds to this account so that there is a clean break from relations? Sorry, I have no experience in this. These are just thoughts.

sdooley

With respect, it isn't a simple estate. Doing a deed of variation is simple. But re-opening a closed estate (the father's) to enter into a deed of variation in it is more difficult, especially as the father's estate was paid to the mother. A grant de bonis non may have to be applied for - this is a special kind of grant of probate where the person who was sole beneficiary (your mother) in the father's estate has died. That new executor can enter into the deed of variation.

As more information comes out, this does look more and more like inadequate professional service, maybe the STEP member 'around the corner' will have experienced a few aggrieved people coming from the 2-partner practice already.

Great book if you are thinking of doing some of it yourselves: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wills-Probate-Inheritance-Tax-Dummies/dp/0470756292

sloughflint

sdooley wrote: »

With respect, it isn't a simple estate.

I always make it clear that I am not an expert in these matters and did use the word 'appear' but am I really so wrong in thinking that at the outset (ie soon after the father's death or even the mother's), it would have been a straightforward estate and a DOV very easy to do?

What are legal executives?

Savvy_Sue

Legal executives usually work within law firms, they have undertaken training and gained experience on the job, AFAIK.

sdooley

Once the mother died it made it more complex; before then you might not have thought to do anything (unless you knew she was ill).

Legal executives usually work in a solicitor's firm (or a bank) but unlike solicitors they are qualified in one area of law only. They are essentially a more formalised version (with a professional body checking on standards) of the old 'clerks' and may not have been to university, etc, rather have gained practical 'on the job' experience over many years. Again though they are unlikely to be tax experts: the difference I would say is that a tax expert will plan for taxes in an optimal way where a normal practitioner will account for tax accurately.

A third professional who is useful sometimes is the accountant - they will tend to be much better on income tax and CGT, setting off losses against interest and dividends and allocating distributions accross tax years - well worth the £800 or so they may charge to prepare a set of estate accounts.

In many cases there is no tax or there is no choice but to pay the tax. In this one it looks like there may be a planning opportunity - but only if you beat the deadline.

sloughflint

Thank you Savvy Sue and sdooley for the explanation on legal executives.

sdooley wrote: »

before then you might not have thought to do anything (unless you knew she was ill).

As the couple's estate was just over double the NRB, shouldn't the solicitor ( as joint executor to the father's estate) have at least thought to do/ suggested doing a DOV incorporating a Discretionary Trust? If the mother was too ill to sign I suppose that might have been a problem but it doesn't look as though the suggestion was even made.

If he hadn't got that far by the time the mother died ( two months later), then couldn't he just have done what you suggested in post 22?