Who pays the bills?

calleyw

peediedj wrote: »

read messages above,all bills will come out of his estate,so if his estate left £125k and bills are £30k then theres £95k left in his estate,your dad would get about £10k of his £25k,and either the house sold and your uncle would get £85k or he could pay £15k and keep the house

Are you sure on that it. As it really depends on what is said in the will.

If it says 25K to be left in the will to X rather than my savings then surely his 25K comes out of the whole estate which includes the house. Because the house was left but it had no value attached to it. As no-one knows what the market values would by the time it the op's grandfather died.

I have no idea as when my MIL died it was all shared equally between all her sons. So left little to be argued over.

All the best to op. Really to have been fair the whole estate should have been split down the middle.


Yours


Calley

Paradise_Found

floss2 wrote: »

I know that you have recently been bereaved, which may have skewed your normal way of thinking, and I'm sorry if this sounds callous or rude, but if your parents are quite happy with the way your grandfather has left his estate...

That's incorrect - my parents are very unhappy, to the point where
it is adversely affect their health, but are too scared to challenge
the will/my uncle...

...then why are you so bothered?

Because I had to deal with my mother in tears the other night on the phone!

This is a woman who I had never heard cry once in the past 40 years,
but she was sobbing uncontrollably on the phone begging me to try and
help them as she was worried that they might "lose everything"

That is why I am "so bothered" - wouldn't you be in my situation??? :rolleyes:

Have you thought that maybe your parents spent their time & money travelling to be with your grandfather because they wanted to, not because they thought they should or in the hope of inheriting anything?

Up to a point, yes.

They certainly didn't look after my grandad solely (or even partly)
in order to try and secure a share of the inheritance, but after
comitting all that time and effort, they are not prepared to see
the money go to a relation who never even bothered to visit my
grandad once in the five years he was in hospital/care home!

Because of this, they would rather the house went to charity,
or the state than my uncle. It sickens them that someone who
never lifted a finger should get the lions share of the estate.

I have always found these forums to offer fair and useful advice,
so frankly I am horrified at the attitude of some posters on this
thread who seem to think my parents should "put up and shut up"
and potentially lose tens of thousands of pounds...

...surely the advice on a 'money saving' forum should always be
geared to suggesting how people can legally save/make money,
not that they should walk away from an awkward situation?


MARK

CLAPTON

Well
in my view it all depends EXACTLY upon what the will EXACTLY says.... what is that ?

calleyw

Paradise_Found wrote: »

That's incorrect - my parents are very unhappy, to the point where
it is adversely affect their health, but are too scared to challenge
the will/my uncle...

I would say if your parents are not happy to get their own solicitor and see what the options are.

They can contest the will but unless your grandfather was of unsound mind or was made to change his will I doubt there is very little they can do.

Paradise_Found wrote: »

Because I had to deal with my mother in tears the other night on the phone!

This is a woman who I had never heard cry once in the past 40 years,
but she was sobbing uncontrollably on the phone begging me to try and
help them as she was worried that they might "lose everything"

That is why I am "so bothered" - wouldn't you be in my situation??? :rolleyes:

Loose everything in what respect. If they have their own house etc not sure what the problem is.

Yes to be fair everything should have been split down the middle. If you grandfather had left nothing would they be getting so worked up. No.

Is it really worth you parents making themselves so ill over money?

Paradise_Found wrote: »

Up to a point, yes.

They certainly didn't look after my grandad solely (or even partly)
in order to try and secure a share of the inheritance, but after
comitting all that time and effort, they are not prepared to see
the money go to a relation who never even bothered to visit my
grandad once in the five years he was in hospital/care home!

Because of this, they would rather the house went to charity,
or the state than my uncle. It sickens them that someone who
never lifted a finger should get the lions share of the estate.

I have always found these forums to offer fair and useful advice,
so frankly I am horrified at the attitude of some posters on this
thread who seem to think my parents should "put up and shut up"
and potentially lose tens of thousands of pounds...

...surely the advice on a 'money saving' forum should always be
geared to suggesting how people can legally save/make money,
not that they should walk away from an awkward situation?


MARK

The fact of what your uncle has or has not done is nothing to do with it and really neither here nor there.

Your grandfather did what he wanted to do even if it is not fair.

My husband did way more for his mother than any of his brothers including the middle of the night calls when she was not well. Does that mean he should have got a bigger share. No it was shared equally amongst them all.

I think you and you parents both need to step away and look at everything as a whole. Health is worth so much more than money.

No one should expect to inherit anything if they do it is a nice bonus. You have been given advice of what normally happens in cases such as this.

You have been told that neither child will have to pay any bills. What happens after that depends on the wording on the will.

As I suggested before your parents need to take a copy of the will in to a solicitor and ask them where they stand.

The advice you get here is not personal. But from people who are removed from the situation and can see everything a little more objectively then you and your parents can at the moment.

Wish you all the best.

Yours


Calley

RichOneday_2

These situations always get confused by people using 'fairness' as the guiding principle, when in fact fairness has got nothing to do with it.

A will exists which represents the grandfather's wishes and a solicitor is best placed to interpret those wishes within a legal framework.

It has got to end up seeming unfair to someone which is why you can almost guarantee family squabbles during bereavements.

Paradise_Found

RichOneday wrote: »

These situations always get confused by people using 'fairness' as the guiding principle, when in fact fairness has got nothing to do with it.

That may be the case, but it still doesn't make it right!!

I though this forum was all about getting a 'fair' deal,
and avoiding getting ripped off, whether it's by a bank
or a member of your own family?

It has got to end up seeming unfair to someone which is why you can almost guarantee family squabbles during bereavements.

Absolutely - this is the first time in my 40 years that I have ever
got even remotely this "wound up" about anything - I just hate
to see my parents end up with virtually nothing after all they have done.

To be told "that's the way the cookie crumbles" or "life's not fair - live with it!"
might be entirely correct, but it's not exactly what I want to hear...:rolleyes:


MARK

RichOneday_2

Paradise_Found wrote: »

That may be the case, but it still doesn't make it right!!

I though this forum was all about getting a 'fair' deal,
and avoiding getting ripped off, whether it's by a bank
or a member of your own family?



Absolutely - this is the first time in my 40 years that I have ever
got even remotely this "wound up" about anything - I just hate
to see my parents end up with virtually nothing after all they have done.

To be told "that's the way the cookie crumbles" or "life's not fair - live with it!"
might be entirely correct, but it's not exactly what I want to hear...:rolleyes:


MARK

I can understand how it must feel. But there is only one person who should decide where their wealth goes and that is the person whos wealth it is.

I'm sure that if you decide, for whatever reason, that you want your net wealth to be given to your favourite charity you'd be pretty miffed if you thought that after your death your wishes were going to be ignored.

Paradise_Found

RichOneday wrote: »

I'm sure that if you decide, for whatever reason, that you want your net wealth to be given to your favourite charity you'd be pretty miffed if you thought that after your death your wishes were going to be ignored.

Absolutely - couldn't agree more.

However, if I was going make such a radical, controversial choice,
I would feel obliged to let my family know what I was intending
to do, as otherwise, I would be creating false expectations...

If that meant that some/all of them "dis-owned" me, then so be it,
but to keep the contents of an 'unconventional' will secret is
selfish and cowardly, and certainly not something that I would
ever consider doing myself - if I was going to cut someone out
of my will (or even give them less than 50%), I would make damn
sure they knew why!!!


The earlier poster was quire right to stress than no-one
should ever expect to receive a penny of inheritance,
but in this era of high living costs and poor pension returns,
an 'expected' inheritance is a lifeline to many people,
so it's pretty selfish of someone not to take care of their children,
unless of course they have behaved in such a way that they
blatently do not deserve any money, such as neglecting their
parents in their old age...


MARK

Paradise_Found

By the way, one fascinating thing that this topic has
taught me is how easy it is to 'judge' people!

I have been lurking on this forum for several years,
and if I had seen a discussion like this before,
I too would have slagged off the OP (i.e. me!) for:

a) getting too involved in someone else's problems

b) taking the moral high ground

c) thinking that lack of fairness = injustice


...but now that it has happened to me, I find myself
behaving in exactly the way I would normally ridicule!


It's a bit like being told that if you are mugged on holiday,
you should never fight back - at the time you are told,
it seems the sensible/obvious approach, but when you have
your handbag/wallet snatched, your "injustice reflex" kicks in,
and most people do end up fighting back, which is what I have
been doing in this thread...

So I apologise for my pig-headedness, but hopefully,
people at least understand that until something like
this happens to you, it's not easy to realise how
this 'injustice reflex" just takes over...

MARK

p.s. boy, am I glad I'm an only child!!!

ceridwen

Sorry to hear of what has happened. Yep - your grandfather was manifestly being unfair. Your uncle is being distinctly unfeeling and unfair.

So - can only echo the practical side of the advice:

- your parents wont lose any of their own money (they cant be made to pay someone else's bills - ie your grandfather). I am wondering if this thought is there lurking in their minds - wondering if all the bills would come from their share and there would still be a shortfall. The absolute worst case analysis in that situation would be that any shortfall would just go unpaid. No-one would pay it at all. It is the case that even if one has been married to someone and they die owing debts - those debts die with them and the widow/widower doesnt have to pay them (not even if they are the one who has actually been doing the spending of the money and caused the debts to be there in the first place). (That aint fair either - to the creditors in this case - but it happens. I have seen a widow I know refuse to pay her husbands debts - even though she was the cause of them, as she had been spending her way through his money at a rate of knots.)

- I'm no legal expert. But - as far as I know the law - the bills would come from the estate as a whole (ie your uncle would HAVE to pay a share of them from the house whether he liked it or not and even if that meant the house had to be sold to do so). I dont know about how the bills would be split between the house and the savings - but I would think that if uncle gets 80% of the inheritance then he should, in fairness, pay 80% of the bills.

- I can understand that the solicitor wont deal with you - as you arent the one inheriting. But its pretty standard practice generally in our society that one can be appointed by someone else to deal with their affairs - by giving them suitable written permission. So - I would imagine their solicitor would have to deal with you if your father gives you a suitably worded letter appointing you as his representative. "I hereby give authority to...." or whatever the wording would be.

- I can understand why you want to write a strongly-worded letter to your uncle. I think it may not help legally if you did this. It certainly wont cause him to get fair and split the estate fairly - he either has a conscience or he doesnt. A letter wont cause him to gain a conscience if he doesnt already have one. People can usually find some sort of justification in their own mind for hanging onto money that they know isnt actually rightfully theirs. I have no idea what his "justification" will be - but he doubtless has thought one up.
If you actually meet up with your uncle anyway in the course of events (not specially) then you could verbally ask him to put things right - but I would only advise that if you can "keep your cool" and know you have the skills of a diplomat. I couldnt do it myself - I'd lose my temper. I expect you would too - cant say I'd blame you. So - thats probably a route not open to you either.

- What you could do is to write a letter to your uncle - holding nothing back BUT NOT POST IT - just tear it up and burn it. Belt the heck out of a few pillows. I think you need to find a way to release the (justifiable) anger you feel somehow - in a safe way.

But - THE basic point of all is your uncle absolutely cant grab any of your parents' own money by making them pay any of your grandfathers bills from their own money that they have anyway. The law doesnt allow it. The bills can ONLY come from the estate - not from your parents own money they already have. They wont lose out financially in that way. The only way they can lose is not getting their fair share of your grandfathers estate (and unfortunately I doubt there is anything you can do about that - sorry).