Funeral payments

BARGAINHUNTER!

sailormoon123 wrote: »

Hi Bargainhunter

My sis his ex is not N.O.K
Mother is not capable (under court of protection)
Aunt is not capable
brother also living in a home and not cabable
deceased-children are all under 16
other aunt-living and working in London -will not take responsibility and we don't have her details-other than a phone number that she won't answer.

Ex wants to bury him but cannot afford to pay the difference and the home won't give me a contact no for the person who is taking care of the mothers finances.
The deceased does not have any money to bury himself, which is a lesson to us all to make sure we save for our funeral.

Thanks for your advice.

Regards

Ok - so from what you have said it sounds like his eldest son is considered to be his next of kin. Has Social Services been told all of this, that the son wants to get the father buried but being a minor does not have the money? There will be a difference in what a funeral paid for by social services will contain and what a funeral arranged privately will contain. I think she needs to go and see social services, explain that her son is his fathers next of kin but being a minor she will have to arrange for the funeral on his behalf. I think different councils have different rules about funerals and payments. it may well be that the council make all the arrangements and pay for it and tell you where it is and when it will be so that you can attend. I think they seek to claim back any costs from the estate or they may contact the people who are looking after the mothers financial affairs. What has happened to all his possessions? Surely there is a solicitor involved in dealing with his estate? Things will have to be 'wound up' so to speak.

Just a thought - who actually has his death certificate? Im not being nosey - but how did he die (in hospital?) if so, they would have had a next of kin listed down on his notes and would have contacted them when he died. They would have then had to go and collect the death certificate and his belongings. If he did die in hospital perhaps they could contact the Patient Affairs office there and see if they can offer any advice.

sailormoon123

Hi

No-one has registered his death yet as we have been told that whoever registers the death will be responsible for the funeral arrangements. I don't know how true this is.
He also was found dead in his flat, and (our nephew identified the body), there are no suspicious circumstances. We don't know who he had down as nok, but we found out about his death via the flat mate.
So, if my sister takes along their eldest son who will be 16 next week along to social services and explain the circumstances to them, then they should help her to arrange everything.
My sis wants to register the body but is afraid to do so in case she is held responsible for the funeral. We need to find out if this is correct, would you happen to know?

Regards

BARGAINHUNTER!

My friend had a similar problem with social services and funeral payments recently.

Her father was estranged from his younger brother, had had been for many years. They didn't even know where he lived, but he knew where they lived as they had been there years and never moved. Anyway, to cut a long story short, my friends father had a phonecall from a hospital 30 miles away to say that his brother was in there, and was basically on his last legs. Being the dutiful brother, he went along to say goodbye. His brother was in a room by himself and at this stage was not aware of what was going on. My friends father wasn't even in the room 1 minute, just made sure he was comfortable and said goodbye before he left. The next thing he knew, he had a phonecall from the hospital to say that he had died and asking him to collect the death certificate and personal belongings. My friends father refused, saying that he had been estranged from his brother for some time and he wasn't next of kin (they had an elder brother still alive who my friends father felt should be classed as next of kin). The hospital then said that the deceased had put my friends Dad down as next of kin, and he had to collect death certificate and belonging and arrange funeral! The hospital told her Dad that his brother had been living in a home, and gave contact details. He contacted the home, who told him that there was no money whatsoever in his estate, only a few items of clothes etc. Upon contacting a funeral director, it became clear that my friends Dad was going to be expected to foot the bill for the funeral that he had to arrange for a man he basically didn't know, and had become totally estranged from the rest of his family. The funeral directors suggested they contact social services. Social services said they would not help with cost of funeral as this was the responsibility of next of kin, and as my friends Dad was not on any benefits they wouldn't help! Paying for funeral would have wiped out all of their savings though, and their only income is state pension. However, as my friends Dad felt so strongly that he shouldn't be next of kin, he contacted his elder brother who agreed to take on the responsibility of being next of kin, as he was on benefits, and would be able to get social services to arrange and pay for funeral.

So in the end social services had to arrange and pay for the funeral, as no one else in the family was willing/able to do so. Al the deceesed was estranged from the whole family I don't think anyone went, or knew when it was or where it was. Social services just sorted it all out.

The hospital were desperately trying to get my friends Dad to collect the death cert and belongings and register death, as apparently when that it done it is deemed that that person will be making arrangements for the funeral. Also, he was told that had he started making arrangements for funeral through funeral director the social services will then not step in and pay.

If I were you, I would get your sister to phone social services, explain that he has been dead a while, death not registered etc etc a minor is next of kin and tell them that they need to arrange and pay for funeral. Either that or get her to phone patient affairs at hospital on behalf of her son and ask what is happeneing about the funeral. it may well be that they have already contacted social services about the funeral, after all, you cannot leave a body laying in a mortury for ever, and there must be some legal requirement as to how long after someone has died that you need to register the death?

BARGAINHUNTER!

Just had a quick look online and found this which might help:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Bereaved/DG_10018660
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Death/WhatToDoAfterADeath/DG_10029667

These links should help!

Good luck and let us know how your sis gets on!

BTW - I think she is an absolute star for wanting to take on this responsibility!
Are the children entitled to anything from social services money wise now their father has died?

tigtag02

sailormoon123 wrote: »

Hi

No-one has registered his death yet as we have been told that whoever registers the death will be responsible for the funeral arrangements. I don't know how true this is.

Not at all.

Whomever arranges the funeral with the funeral director will be liable to pay his costs/bill. It has nothing to do with the registering of the death.

There is a timescale though (which I am not sure of, will go look it up and I'm sure its not that long) in which the death must be registered.

EDIT:

This death needs registering ASAP, I'm not sure what the penalties are for not doing so:

When and where to register a death

In England and Wales, you normally need to register the death within five days. It's best to go to the registry office in the area in which the person died, otherwise it may take longer to get the necessary documents and this could delay the funeral arrangements.

FULL LINK

alwaysonthego_2

As above it is the person who arranges and signs the papers for the funeral who is liable for the costs of the funeral. If the DWP finds a close living relative of the deseased who is in position to pay for the funeral, they will not pay out the grant.

sailormoon123

Thanks again for all your advice.

The death has not been registered by any of us, and as we are not legally obliged (not nok) I don't know who is liable for the penalty for not registering. However, saying that, now that we know we won't be made accountable for the funeral costs, we will sort that out next week, as it will make us feel better for at least doing something to move this along.

I shall ring the home in the morning to see if they have anything else to add, and if not, I think it would be best if my sis looked to see if she can bring down the funeral costs to the bare minimum, and to see what the DWP says again. It's a very sad time for her and the children and the worry of this is making it worse.

Many thanks for all your advice and help I will pass on your information to her.

I will let you know how things go.

Kindest regards.

tigtag02

Can she not apply for the grant on behalf of her eldest son who IS the NOK?

BARGAINHUNTER!

sailormoon123 wrote: »

Thanks again for all your advice.

The death has not been registered by any of us, and as we are not legally obliged (not nok) I don't know who is liable for the penalty for not registering. However, saying that, now that we know we won't be made accountable for the funeral costs, we will sort that out next week, as it will make us feel better for at least doing something to move this along.

I shall ring the home in the morning to see if they have anything else to add, and if not, I think it would be best if my sis looked to see if she can bring down the funeral costs to the bare minimum, and to see what the DWP says again. It's a very sad time for her and the children and the worry of this is making it worse.





Many thanks for all your advice and help I will pass on your information to her.

I will let you know how things go.

Kindest regards.

You cannot arrange a funeral if the death has not been registered. Is it possible that the hospital have already registered his death?

tigtag02

BARGAINHUNTER! wrote: »

You cannot arrange a funeral if the death has not been registered. Is it possible that the hospital have already registered his death?

This is correct, the funeral director needs the green part of the death certificate.