Parents can deal with uni applications

melancholly

CLAPTON wrote: »

yes of course 18 years old are legally adults but grown ups know that that's not actually so.... is it?

interesting... i disagree, but for the sake of arguement, what age do you think should be the cut off point? i know 14 year olds who are more grown up than some 50 year olds

melancholly

jay11 wrote: »

On my uni course the nicest young students were those who worked alongside the course, those with rich parents really struggled, emotionally and psychologically, with the work. They just weren't used to having to live independently and cope with pressures.

i agree with most of what you're saying, but i do hate all of these kind of stereotypes. some 'rich' kids have to be independent since their parents spend all their time working and not doing anything for them. some 'poor' kids have a parent at home doing everything for them (not that all parents who don't work do anything like this! just making a point!). i've also seen mature students who don't have a clue about how to manage their work, so it all varies.

jay11_2

melancholly wrote: »

i agree with most of what you're saying, but i do hate all of these kind of stereotypes. some 'rich' kids have to be independent since their parents spend all their time working and not doing anything for them. some 'poor' kids have a parent at home doing everything for them (not that all parents who don't work do anything like this! just making a point!). i've also seen mature students who don't have a clue about how to manage their work, so it all varies.

Not stereotyping, just saying how it was, we had a handful of very rich kids who really struggled. They managed the work, for the most part, but considering they had little else to do.... But were frequently at the doc's with stuff, (they were told medical student syndrome, stress, and so on) and had a really tough time.

It was a very demanding course, and the rest of us, about 50% mature sudents with families, etc. and the other youngsters who worked alongside, were too busy to do anything but just get on with stuff. I've no doubt it isn't always like that, but it was pretty striking.

melancholly

i guess my experience was very different - as an oxbridge undergrad some of the other students were just loaded (titled parents, the lot!), but it didn't seem to make any difference. and the courses there certainly count as demanding!

at other unis i've been at there have certainly been cliques who all do very little work and others that are great, but it doesn't seem to be split on financial grounds that i've been able to see.

i guess it just varies a lot!

CLAPTON

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Sorry, I don't agree. They may be young adults needing guidance at times, but they're adults just the same. Grown ups thinking they're not and letting them be children with adult rights and vices is a recipe for disaster, in my book.

well I agree.............and
Clearly as I'm not suggesting they are fully adult, so obviously they shouldn't be treated as having 'adult' rights and vices and obviously caring and responsible parents, and other responsible adults in positions of authority continue to guide and counsel these young people.... well recognised in ancient Greek times too...

CLAPTON

melancholly wrote: »

interesting... i disagree, but for the sake of arguement, what age do you think should be the cut off point? i know 14 year olds who are more grown up than some 50 year olds

obviously variation around a normal is inevitable and not worthy of oxbridge graduates debating.......

methinks meloncholy is being somewhat argumentative this evening and why not indeed?

Oldernotwiser

CLAPTON wrote: »

well I agree.............and
Clearly as I'm not suggesting they are fully adult, so obviously they shouldn't be treated as having 'adult' rights and vices and obviously caring and responsible parents, and other responsible adults in positions of authority continue to guide and counsel these young people.... well recognised in ancient Greek times too...

In an ideal world maybe, but you try stopping them driving, drinking, screwing and getting into debt! (Stopping them voting wouldn't be a problem, most of them can't be arsed!) One or the other in my opinion; either children, where parents make the rules and know best, or adults, with all that entails.

jay11_2

CLAPTON wrote: »

well I agree.............and
Clearly as I'm not suggesting they are fully adult, so obviously they shouldn't be treated as having 'adult' rights and vices and obviously caring and responsible parents, and other responsible adults in positions of authority continue to guide and counsel these young people.... well recognised in ancient Greek times too...

My feeling is that some people only really grow up when they have to, we all have an element of laziness in us. So as long as parents do all the hard stuff, we can't blame the kids for taking advantage, I'm over 40, but would probably have accepted 'parent' help at times recently, if it was pushed on me when I was in tears with exhaustion and course pressures. Now, of course, I'm glad I had to get on with it--I know my strengths and am proud that I stuck it.

I think 18 is a reasonable age, but that as a society we have to start preparing our kids better.

melancholly

CLAPTON - no more argumentative than normal; i just think you're wrong!

i'm not sure how defining young people as not adult in terms of them recieving guideance and cousel from others works either..... i give a lot of guideance to my parents on some issues and they are certainly adults. i also ask for consel from others a lot as well; does that make me not an adult?

i think perhaps that by quoting society in ancient greece as a model of modern britain, you're really the one up for a bit of row?!

CLAPTON

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

In an ideal world maybe, but you try stopping them driving, drinking, screwing and getting into debt! (Stopping them voting wouldn't be a problem, most of them can't be arsed!) One or the other in my opinion; either children, where parents make the rules and know best, or adults, with all that entails.

I see no such stark alternatives; in real life there is a gradual evolution from the state of childhood to that of mature adult.... and of course different individuals and different circumstances require different strategies.. and its multi dimensional ... completely adult in some respects and babes in others..

and

driving ... what about the huge death rate of young (OK mainly male drivers)
driving yes but beating up people too?
scewing ... yes but rape too?
debt... surely a little guidance and education and help is the way here
voting... well......