MBNA dispute letter help needed

James

Two identical cards issued to the same account. It just shouldn't happen. Even both CVV numbers were the same. If an additional card had been added, and it wasn't, then the CVV number would have been different.

bert&ernie

James wrote: »

Two identical cards issued to the same account. It just shouldn't happen. Even both CVV numbers were the same. If an additional card had been added, and it wasn't, then the CVV number would have been different.

This is getting very tedious now. I'm beginning to feel like John Sweeney talking to the Scientologist spokesman/windup merchant on Panorama.

[takes deep breath]

The CVV2 is generated using the PAN and expiry date of the card. Cards that share these details will normally share the same CCV2.

The system is designed to work this way. CCV2 is designed to help secure Card Not Present transactions by indicating that you have any one of the cards valid for that account in your possession - not a particular peice of plastic.

On the contrary, the chip and mag-stripe are designed to secure card present transactions. They are encoded with much more information - including a card sequence number which differentiates cards that appear to be the same externally.

Is there anything about this that you are having trouble understanding, or is the problem simply that these facts just don't support your fallacious argument?

Once again, why are you so afraid of telling us how the cards came into your possession?

James

Agreed it is tedious and this is my last posting on this.

The card industry claim you cannot get 2 identical chipped cards (on the same account).

Let's put it like this. If you were sent a Chip and PIN card and used it for face to face transactions you would expect that card to be unique.

Let's suppose that a second card existed, you knew nothing about, and that card was used for face to face transactions (fraudulently). Transactions show up for BOTH cards on your statement.

If you challenged the transactions made by the second card, how could you ever prove that a duplicate card ever existed?

gomer

How do you know the chips are identical?

bert&ernie

James wrote: »

Agreed it is tedious and this is my last posting on this.

The reason its tedious is that you have steadfastly refused to answer my questions. I have rebutted all of you points yet you continue to spout the same dogmatic nonsense. I will address each of your final points directly - i do hope you do me the courtesy of a response

James wrote: »

The card industry claim you cannot get 2 identical chipped cards (on the same account).

You haven't proved that the cards are identical - only asserted that the embossing and signature stripe printing are the same. I have repeatedly told you that the chip and magstripe contain details that can differentiate these cards.

James wrote: »

Let's put it like this. If you were sent a Chip and PIN card and used it for face to face transactions you would expect that card to be unique.

I would expect the card issuer to be able to tell them apart. I wouldn't be surprised to receive an identical looking card, if, for instance, I had ordered an additional users card with exactly the same embossing name. Despite repeated requests from myself, you have always refused to reveal how you obtained the cards that you claim look identical. I am now lead to assume that you made a deliberate attempt to solicit such a card. If my assumption is wrong, please feel free to correct me.

James wrote: »

Let's suppose that a second card existed, you knew nothing about, and that card was used for face to face transactions (fraudulently). Transactions show up for BOTH cards on your statement.

Multiple cards can legitimately be issued against the same account. As I have said all along, the chip and magstripe can differentiate between them even if they look the same.

James wrote: »

If you challenged the transactions made by the second card, how could you ever prove that a duplicate card ever existed?

The banks internal records will show what card made each transaction. We, as customers, have to trust them (and their auditors/regulators) to maintain records of our accounts. This kind of information asymmetry is a fact of life - if you are uncomfortable with this then perhaps you should revert to cash and a pocketbook.

I'm going to ask one more time - how did you obtain the cards?

bert&ernie

Bump.
As James clearly doesnt want to play any more, perhaps the OP would like to update us on the progress of their case?