MBNA dispute letter help needed

luvagoose

Hi all,
my husband and myself are in dispute :mad: with MBNA. (chip/pin card cloned)
MBNA state the original card was used in 4 fraudulent transactions
. we dispute this as card was safe at home. MBNA state that chip cloning has never happened., and are insisting we pay even though they have not provided us with any evidence. We have drafted yet another letter to them and would appreciate members opinions. Thanks


This is in response to your letter dated 11th august 2008


We asked for a record of the transaction cryptogram in a format that could be used in a court of law, sadly you did not even acknowledge this in your last letter (11th Aug 2008).
I am requesting for the second time the cryptogram information that you state allegedly shows the original chip was used.

If you are unwilling to provide this information to us then we demand that you confirm in writing that you have/will preserve the cryptogram information indefinitely so it can be recalled and brought to a court of law.

It is also very important that you understand that you must answer the questions in a fair manner because you have a duty of care towards your customers.

We ask you once again as you have failed the first time to answer this relatively simple question.

Exactly what you have done to investigate this?

The sentence “I can assure you that we have an experienced team of investigators who review each claim thoroughly before making a decision” is not acceptable!

Especially when MBNA have employed staff such as Mr Timothy Glyn Maddocks age 24, who was employed by yourselves as a fraud analyst in your Chester fraud department who in May 2008 was sentenced to 16 months in prison for trying to siphon £27,000 from customer’s accounts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But only managed £5,000 And let’s not forget Mr Kirk Gorman age 27(once again working in your fraud department) who supplied customer account details to 2 other individuals to siphon almost £25,000 from customers inactive accounts. And in April 2008 was sentenced to prison for 1 year. This does not promote any confidence in MBNA / you or your fraud department.



Remember the banking code section 12 subsection 12.12 that states

12.12 Unless we can show that you have acted fraudulently
Or without reasonable care, your liability for your card
Being misused will be limited as follows.
If someone else uses your card, before you tell us it
Has been lost or stolen or that someone else knows
Your PIN, the most you will have to pay is £50.

And

12.11 If you act fraudulently, you will be responsible for all
Losses on your account. If you act without reasonable
Care, and this causes losses, you may be responsible
For them. (This may apply, for example, if you do not
Follow section 12.5 or 12.9 or you do not keep to your
Account’s terms and conditions.)


You state “it is important to understand to hold a customer liable for the transactions MBNA does not need to prove who carried them out”, but the banking code that MBNA adhere to states that you (MBNA) have to prove fraud or carelessness was carried out by the cardholder.
You stating that the original chip was used without any supporting evidence shown to ourselves is not proof of fraud or carelessness.
Why should we believe MBNA stating the original chip was used anymore than you not seeming to believe us that we are not guilty of being fraudsters/careless, even though we can provide documentary evidence that it was not us that you do not seem interested in.

As for stating that this issue has been fully addressed and you have exhausted your internal complaints procedure and you will not enter into anymore correspondence with us, how you can say this when you have not even acknowledged / answered or provided any evidence is beyond belief.

I am sorry to spoil your day but this is not finished between us and MBNA yet.

clio

hope it go,s well to deep for me to answer as i don.t know anything, but
hope someone can draft you a good letter which will help you.
btw how did you find out about those being bent working for MBNA ??

luvagoose

Hi clio
went onto net and typed in news in chester to see if i could find anything about MBNA in there local area as not all news gets spread about the country, chester chronical.co.uk came up and bingo, looks like chester newspaper loves a scandal when it involves MBNA, these are dated around April 2008.
we are still scanning the chester chronical and other local newspapers close to chester to see what else comes up.

buglawton

I am surprised the MBNA have tried to counter your claim, they are on a loser and will garner bad publicity while they fight you. However you have given sparse details so far about the case. For example, where were the fraudulent transactions done and how plausible is it that you card could really have been used?

A major source of disputed cases is relatives or carers using one's card....

See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/13/counterfeit_pin_terminal_arrests/ for recent news of how the crims are getting clones of cards. Apparently not all countries use the chip (so back to the question about WHERE, WHEN and HOW were the disputed transactions done).

James

Luvagoose, I've PM'd you again.

Just for info I have in my possesion, an exact duplicate chipped card. Both cards have been used for face to face transactions in chip and Pin terminals in shops (the chip was checked NOT the magstrip). I have witnesses and had no intention defraud the card issuer. (Transactions paid in full).

So if MBNA are telling you you can't get an exact duplicate of a Chipped Card, they are mistaken.

As or your PIN being captured it's oh so easy.

fiveyearplan

MBNA are a law unto themselves. I'd also be interested to know where your card was used and where you yourself had used it prior to the fraudulent transactions. Some places are more likely than others to clone cards. Did you use it at petrol stations, restaurants, mobile phone shops?

Where was it used fraudulently - there are also typical place people use these fraudulently - let us know!

luvagoose

James wrote: »

Luvagoose, I've PM'd you again.

Just for info I have in my possesion, an exact duplicate chipped card. Both cards have been used for face to face transactions in chip and Pin terminals in shops (the chip was checked NOT the magstrip). I have witnesses and had no intention defraud the card issuer. (Transactions paid in full).

So if MBNA are telling you you can't get an exact duplicate of a Chipped Card, they are mistaken.

As or your PIN being captured it's oh so easy.

Hi James,
i have sent you an email, please check your internet inbox. and let me know if you recieved it,

thanks
Luvagoose (T @ A)

James

luvagoose wrote: »

Hi James,
i have sent you an email, please check your internet inbox. and let me know if you recieved it,

thanks
Luvagoose (T @ A)

Received it ok and have replied.

tks James

luvagoose

Just a bit more info.
The virgin credit card was used once at a shell garage and once at a tyre shop by my husband. we received a statement a few weeks later that showed 3 unathorised transactions. £200 at Tesco Express Cambridge, 11 days later 2X £500 Barclays Bank Gamlingay (2 days apart) When MBNA informed they stated that the original card had been used, but we had the original card in our possesion. Neither myself or my husband have been to Cambridge or Gamlingay. Given the card/pin to anybody or
written it down.
1 Card cannot be in 2 places at once. MBNA have said that us or sombody must have had access to the card and used it, as they have had no record of an embedded chip being cloned. We are disputing this as we are not Liars/ thieves/ fraudsters and nor are our family that come to visit us.After a number of phone calls, MBNA sent us a letter saying that we have to pay, and also that another £500 had been taken from Barclay Bank Gamlingay.the day their statement was printed. Making a total of £1,700.

The pin number was obviously taken at one of the terminals in the shell garage or tyre shop. But MBNA cannot understand how the pin was identified and used .
And that there has not been any reports of chip and pin card being cloned and used in a cashpoint machine.
There is an person called Alain Job who is taking the Halifax to court for the same thing. So thats 2 of us.!!!

buglawton

One thing I do know: I have still seen my card swiped thru the mag card reader in the past few months. A scam could involve complicit staff passing cloned cards thru the mag reader to make purchases... risk will remain till mag strip readers are completely removed from service. Successful chip cloning may be unknown at this moment, magnetic strip cloning is easy by comparison.

fiveyearplan

buglawton wrote: »

Successful chip cloning may be unknown at this moment, magnetic strip cloning is easy by comparison.

But not impossible.

Its quite well known for these things to happen at petrol stations. Maybe you should post this on Consumer Action Group forum. They have a wealth of legal knowledge on there.