Electrical question - washine machine plug seized in socket

JimmyTheWig

Also, what's the difference between a spur and a double adapter / 4-way strip?

WestonDave

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Anyone got any idea how much we'd be looking at for an electrician to (a) verify it's wired up correctly and reposition the socket, (b) test the whole house, and (c) rewire the whole house.

Anyone know any reliable electricians in the Chessington (Kingston) area?

(a) Probably £100/£200 ballpark but they'd probably want to test more than just that. (b) I've had this done for £50+VAT but that was ten years ago so probably budget £100+VAT - this is pretty easy to ask for a fixed quote on as its a standard item (c) mine cost the wrong side of £5k, but that was in a big 3 bed detached with a lot of nightmares like solid downstairs floors requiring wall channels to the extra sockets (we only had one per room so there were a lot of channels to get to a decent number). That also included having a fully linked smoke and heat detector system installed. Basically ours was 3 weeks work for two blokes so it was a serious job on wiring not improved since 1950.

Re the 4 way adapter thing. If you plug 3 kettles into a 4way (seriously don't try this!), the 13A fuse in the plug at the end will blow so it can never draw enough current to overheat the cable. In a chain of spurs each plug is only drawing less than 13A so none of the fuses will blow, but you could easily have 2 or 3 times 13A running down the "root" cable (i.e. the one at the power end of the chain). Chances are that part of the cable will be in a wall or under a floor so you won't know its getting hot until its time to phone the fire brigade. With a ring main half the power goes each way keeping the load down so although you can have 32A out of the supply without tripping the microswitch, any given bit of cable is never above 16A. Two 13A appliances on a spur means 26A all down one bit of cable which is where the heating comes in.

JimmyTheWig

Ouch on the prices.
Interesting on the spur issue.
lol @ 3 kettles on a 4 plug strip!

Thanks.

TimBuckTeeth

Although the fuse will not blow, it is not a good idea to plug even a single kettle (or fan heater) into an extension lead.

Talking about extension leads, I found this picture of a dangerous one the other day :
http://groups.msn.com/SparkyResurrection/interestingelectricalanomilies.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=116
The only good thing about it is that the wires are connected to the correct pins in the plug!

JimmyTheWig

Ok, I missed a vital piece of the jigsaw. Since I've taken out this socket our boiler hasn't been on. The gas boiler that happens to be directly above the washing machine.

So I'm happy to assume that the washing machine socket is part of the ring, with a spur going to the boiler. So that's all been done correctly, by the looks of things.

But I'm now not totally sure where to go from here.
Options...
1. Replace the socket where it is and feed all three cables (9 wires) into it.
2. Use a junction box to attach the three cables together at the point of the old socket and take a single cable up the wall to a new socket.
3. Use junction boxes to take the two ring cables up the wall to a new socket and put the spur cable into one of those junction boxes.
4. Use junction boxes to take all three cables up the wall to a new socket.

Before this discussion I would have just done number 2. But is that not, in effect, creating two spurs on the same part of the line? (And does it make it even worse that it's not even at a socket?)
So I'm now thinking that options 3 or 4 would be safer. In which case I'm tempted just to stick with option 1!

Incidentally, if I do go down the junction box route, presumably I can lose them in the wall. Anything I need to watch out for in doing that?

JimmyTheWig

So option 2 might look like this...

....Power
......||
..----||----
..|........|
*-..........-*
*-..........-*
..|........|
*-.....*---|---*
*-.....*...|...*
..|........|
..

---

Where a double asterisk is a socket.
(Ignore the dots - it took away mywhite space before I has them.)

Does that look bad? Have I even got the diagram right?
Or is it, by some sort of topology that I've missed, really all ok?

shandypants5

Hi jim, me again..

You need to TEST that the other 2 cables are actually part of the ring.

You could just connect a socket to each cable in turn and plug something in to see if its live, ( or if you have a multimeter and know how to use it then do so).

If 2 are still live then its "fairly" safe to assume that they are part of the ring main.

I would just replace the socket front where it is, that way you arent getting into part P regulation territory.

If you have water dripping on it you should fix the drip.:rolleyes:

2. The cable that feeds the boiler "should" do so through a fused switch plate, so that you can turn off the boiler if you need to work on it.

If it does, and the other 2 cables are live as tested earlier, then everything is as it should be and the burning was "probably" just from a loose terminal caonnection in the old socket.

shandypants5

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

So option 2 might look like this...

....Power
......||
..----||----
..|........|
*-..........-*
*-..........-*
..|........|
*-.....*---|---*
*-.....*...|...*
..|........|
..

---

Where a double asterisk is a socket.
(Ignore the dots - it took away mywhite space before I has them.)

Does that look bad? Have I even got the diagram right?
Or is it, by some sort of topology that I've missed, really all ok?

:rotfl: nice artwork...

No DONT do option 2.

That would mean the point where all 4 cables meet would be overloaded.

Option 3 would be the correct "circuit" but ideally you should run NEW cables from the places those 2 cables are fed from (ie the next 2 sockets allong the wall.)

shandypants5

have a look at this site.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/ring%2520main.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/ring_main.htm&h=400&w=470&sz=14&hl=en&start=3&usg=__9PXFnhpUSP9NB_OYNyqRN5hDZbk=&tbnid=PkeIWHArepC9pM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522ring%2Bmain%2B%2522%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

JimmyTheWig

shandypants5 wrote: »

You need to TEST that the other 2 cables are actually part of the ring.

You could just connect a socket to each cable in turn and plug something in to see if its live, ( or if you have a multimeter and know how to use it then do so).

Am happy with multimeter. Presumably I'm looking for an AC potential difference between live and neutral within the one cable?

Won't be doing it now as I've got the kids. Better wait until my wife wakes up...

2. The cable that feeds the boiler "should" do so through a fused switch plate, so that you can turn off the boiler if you need to work on it.

Yes, it does.

Many thanks.