Puppy Advice (merged)

Emmabeth

Average puppy prices are around £600 - £850 for most 'normal' breeds, and around £1000 to £1500 for those that have very tiny litters and need c-sections/need to stay with mum longer than 8 weeks (tiny toy breeds generally stay 12 weeks).

Price does not necessarily dictate quality, but UNDER those prices you need to ask yourself, what corners is the breeder cutting here?

Usually the biggest corner cut is that the breeder is going out to work all day, and isnt therefore, home with the pups taking care of them (something that NEEDS to be done).

I definately do not begrudge spending nearly £1K on a well bred pup - the difference is amazing, really. The time my pups breeder took off work, unpaid, for 9 weeks, has meant my pup was a happy, easy going confident girl from the minute she got home with me.

You do get what you pay for - that said £3500 for one pup is extortionate and unrealisitic, even for the breed mentioned.

The best way to find a breeder is to search for that breeds Breed Club and they should put you in touch with breed club members. Breed Clubs (for my breed thats The Deerhound Club, make sure its an official one! recognised by the KC as such), have guidelines for their members on breeding practices, prices charged and various other things - its still not a guarantee that the breeder you find will be 'perfect' but its a step in the right direction.

Emmabeth

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

I know many people feel that keeping pups expensive means they are likey to go to better homes, but I have just returned from visiting a local rescue, for a charity dog show (the Badger won third place in 'best in show!').

Whilst I was there I had a quick look at the dogs they had got in - they have a beautiful pedigree husky puppy, and an adult chihuahua, so I am not convinced this is always the case!

But did either dog come from a reputable breeder with the best interests of the breed (rather than money) at heart.

I could pretty much guarantee you that the answer there, is no - purely due to the breeds quoted. Unfortunately there are lots of people breeding huskys and chihuahuas as they are two of the latest 'trendy' breeds, due to various films and celebs owning them.

Puppy farms and puppy 'supermarkets' will charge ridiculous prices for them because they can, back yard breeders will too and they dont give a rats where the dog goes... and they wont take them back when things go wrong.

I dont agree that pups need to be over the reasonable costs of raising a litter to ensure good homes, i think that is the lazy, irresponsible money grabbing breeders reasoning for high prices.

Vetting owners is the way to ensure good homes, but it is difficult when many people do not see the need to find a breeder, visit them before dogs are mated, visit pups two or three times BEFORE they can go home with them, over the course of several months - people also dont see the need to find the best breeder they can, they just want ANY breeder nearest to their area with pups immediately.

It took me 6 years of research, effort, saving money and visiting breeders before i got my pup. I dont mean everyone ought to take that long, but around 12 months is reasonable - most wouldnt want to wait 12 DAYS.

Its very hard to find a really reputable breeder, which is a shame as its really easy to find a !!!! one.

lil_me

Good news is the tax man seems interested in those who sell pups for a high price, my friends brother had someone come to look at his bulldog pups, turns out he was from the tax office and he's now having to get advice on accounts for his 'business' breeding dogs.

Emmabeth

Sadly... bad news is you would have to be breeding a looooooot of dogs before you ran out of 'tax expenses' and actually had to pay any.
Given you could put down show entry fees, dog insurance, dog food, transport costs, equipment costs.. just for the 'running costs' of owning dogs to breed from, without the associated expenses for each and every litter... and then inc, a persons yearly personal allowance...

Just not going to penalise people sufficiently to stop them, well unless they ARE charging thousands per pup...

johnwayne

Considering the programme that I just watched on bbc1 about breeding pedigrees I wouldnt say that most breeders have the dogs interests at heart!!!!

These breeders need to look at the ways they are breeding their pups!!
Seems that paying loads of money does not guarantee you a healthy well bred dog...more like a unhealthy, inbred dog who will suffer imensely and die young!!!!!!

foreign_correspondent

did you see the pedigree dogs programme tonight - another good reason to go for a mongrel i think!

foreign_correspondent

johnwayne wrote: »

Considering the programme that I just watched on bbc1 about breeding pedigrees I wouldnt say that most breeders have the dogs interests at heart!!!!

These breeders need to look at the ways they are breeding their pups!!
Seems that paying loads of money does not guarantee you a healthy well bred dog...more like a unhealthy, inbred dog who will suffer imensely and die young!!!!!!

absolutely - and how do you identify these 'responsible breeders'? - I guess most of them present themselves well to potential customers.

Having worked in a prestige car salesroom for a while, where the salesmen were all lovely bonhomie and matey mateyness to customers when they were there, then took the p*ss out of them horribly and offensively as soon as they left, I am under no delusions about the insincerity that can arise when people are tyring to sell a commodity, and let's not kid ourselves, that is what these pups are.

Paparika

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

did you see the pedigree dogs programme tonight - another good reason to go for a mongrel i think!

Very much agree with you there

toshkininny

I didn't see it, thought I might end up getting a little upset about the contents. Can you summarise?

foreign_correspondent

toshkininny wrote: »

I didn't see it, thought I might end up getting a little upset about the contents. Can you summarise?

Basically the programme was about the fact that dog breeds have been selvectively bred for looks over health for years now, as breeers aim for the exaggerated physical charachteristics that will make their dog the 'best'.

Examples were german shepherds, with their exaggerated sloping backs and weak hips, Cavvies with skulls so small ther brains were being crushed, and bulldogs and pugs unable to get their breath or run about.

It also highlighted that often dogs with inherited health conditions are still winning best in show, and being bred from, despite the fact that thse conditons are often very painful and tragic for the dogs. (examples here were a cavvie with the problem outlined above, and a pekingese who won crufts despite hardly being able to walk to the podium, and having to be sat on a cool pad as he could not regulate his temprature.

These were dogs from allegedly the best breeders in the uk, but many of these problems are common across the breed.

I hope this programme will make people think twice about the ethics of buying from breeders, and perhaps consider a healthier mongrel too!

This bbc page has some background:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7569592.stm

There is a MSE thread here:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1106269