Deficit Income and Bankruptcy

AnnesWitterings

Hi All

Ive just read another post on which if I understand it correctly means Im in BIG BIG trouble.

I am about to go Bankrupt on the 21st August after struggling to get my fees together Im now worried that I might get it refused on the grounds of still being insolvent when declared bankrupt,,I still wont have enough income coming in after Bankruptcy to meet my most basic of needs...

My SOA

Income

Income Support £60.50


Outgoings

Rent £5.00 (I am subject to a suspended posession order and must pay this or be evicted and this should be allowed in Bankruptcy as an essential spend)

CSA £10.00 ( This is the flat rate £5.00 contribution plus £5.00 arrears Ive contested this but they said sod orf this it missis pay up)

Court Fine £5.00 (Had no TV Licence)

TV Lic £5.00

Elec £10.00 (pre payment meter)

Gas £10.00 (prepayment meter)

Water Rates £6.25 (these are in arrears and on Bankruptcy petition)

So this leaves me £15.00 per week for food and other essential whatevers

Could I be refused bankruptcy on the grounds that I am not going to be able to live ie insolvent.

I do have a job to go back to but have just been diagnosed with BI Polar, 3 months ago, the mere fact of going back to that job makes me shudder in my shoes.And I have been told if I give up my job I will be sanctioned and no payments

The wages from that job are £80.90p per week (16hrds at basic wage) but by returning to work my CSA contribution will go up, and possibly a small amount of rent and c/tax might have to be paid, Im worse off working
Plus I told WTC folk since Jan 2008 when I reduced my hoursfrom 30 to 16 that I no longer was entitled to WTC but they kept on reassuring me that I was, even renewed my pack in July 08 with WTC they finally sorted this out and had the damn cheek to tell me that I had a MASSIVE overpayment looming and would be contacting me to sort out a repayment schedule, they can stuff..its there fault not mine I kept them informed every week phoning and writing so I shall fight them when they start.
I have sold my fridge.freezer washing machine and microwave and fancy settess and dining table/chairs to get these fees together and dont want to waste them if my bankruptcy is going to be refused.
Ive the bailiffs dancing on my front doorstep (C/tax liability order) giving me a load of hey !!!!Annie hunni sugar coated tripe about let us in and we can sort out a payment arrangement and you can pay it weekly....and we will slap a visit charge on to your debt whilst doing it so Im at a friends house till the 21st and Bankruptcy hearing.

Ive had CLS do phone calls to WTC and the WTC still got it wrong.
CAB have helped me fill in my bankruptcy forms last week and nothing was said about my posession order payments, Debt Doctor on here clarified that for me thank you lovley man.
I read this about deficit income on a post on here this morning.
My Bi Polars under control, thank god it was borderline or Id be heading for the local mental hospital with all of this.
I have a sense of humour still and tend to think that this is a battle of sorts, but its not funny anymore, as I clear one disaster another looms...
I started this journey towards Bankruptcy with a confident manner but the last 3 months have ripped my confidence to shreds..but Im still standing as I realise Im not the only one in this situation and it will be resolved but by god its been a hard slog...and this forum and MSE have been my salvation only a few more days to go...but Im going to get into that court and have my fresh start if its allowed.

Sorry for the novel, I just hope my conclusion of the bankruptcy journey has an ending that puts a :j in my step and not a :eek: :eek: .

Anne

debt_doctor

Hi Anne,

I have to say that I have seen this wording from CCCS before and im not comfortable with it.

The benefit system ( whether working or not ) should leave enough for some one to meet their basic costs.

I see people in your position very often, and having those deductions is difficult but absolutely NO reason to deny your BR.

I do think you need to go to your local CAB however difficult that may be .

I would suggest you need to fill out an N244 to vary your rent arrears down to £ 3.00 and to stop paying the £5 per week towards the CSA arrears.

Also you may well need to delay your BR until your overpayments have been decided, otherwise they will survive your discharge from BR.

DD

fiveyearplan

I had £800 per month deficit and I was still declared BR. NOw that I'm getting WTC and CTC the deficit is much smaller and I can probably cut some corners to make ends meet.

debt_doctor

Also, if as you say, you kept tax credits fully informed, you can contest the overpayment and obtain a cd of the telephone converations to prove your point, but you need some help with this.

Best

DD

skylight

Okay. Council tax debts and the overpayments from WTC are included in bankruptcy, so do not worry about those. As are rental debts. Do you live in a housing association/council house? If so you are not going to lose you home when these debts are included. The payplan websites state benefit overpayments are not included in BR, but due to a court case last year they are - their site has not been updated correctly.

CSA debts though are not included in BR but they may be a little more lenient in paying back the arrears - but then they may not. Court fines are not included in BR either.

Keep the baliffs on the doorstep and lock all doors and windows - you are doing the right thing in not letting them in.

Are you in arrears with gas or electric? PAYG meters are not always updated correctly with the correct unit price so you *could* be in a small debt with these. If you are not, then consider changing supplier as PAYG meters are charged a stupidly high rate in comparison to other methods. I changed MIL to Ebico - she is on meters and the unit prices were low with no additional charges. She has saved a lot. Even a few pounds a week to you at this stage is important.

For advice on your job, I would try the employment board. Do not give up your job. If they want to let you go then let them but there is a better place for advice on that.

Regarding the deficit that you read earlier - yes its right, that with too large a deficit a BR order could be refused, but checking out what your I&E would be after BR, then there is no deficit (change supplier and no rent/water arrears etc). That said, I do not think that there has ever been reported here a judge that would actually refuse a BR petition.

Now, on your post, I cannot see any actual debts? Like credit cards/loans etc???? Do you owe enough to actually go BR???

debt_doctor

If the thought of going back to your job makes you ill then you should go and see your doctor who no doubt would issue a sick certificate, especially with your recent diagnosis.

Cant sanction you for that.

DD

AnnesWitterings

Hi all again

Debt doctor I assumed tht any WTC overpayments were not covered by Bankruptcy anyway...and that my Court Fine had to be paid as well despite Bankruptcy

My rent arrears/posession order will eventually be paid off, as I said earlier to you in my previous PM post to you I have the option of moving in with my partner but that means losing my Income Support, effictively ZERO income so will that make my Bankruptcy null and void or even allowed.?? Plus would the CSA be able to take his income into account when they evaluate my contributions.
I feel like Im walking on a bloody tightly strung tightrope..go that way and its punch in the stomach..go the other way and weve got you hahahaha.

My lovley man in my life says just give up work, stuff your bankruptcy if disallowed and claim nothing and let them fight over the carcass of my empty bank accounts and come live with me, but with my luck they would probably start dipping into his hard earned wages and my debts would all register on his address:eek: :eek: .

So what do I do..If I go and pay my fees and go for bankruptcy and they say NOPE sorry deficit income scenario will I get my fees back or will they stop it at the checking my petition is ok and taking my fees stage.

CAB have said they have done everything they can for me at this point..and to be honest and Im not knocking them but I have had more clear advice from this forum than the CAB, Im not knocking them they are just so overwhelmed with folks needing help
Nothing has ever been mentioned about my deficit income or that my posession order would not be cleared by Bankruptcy....I feel the need to volunteer myself to the CAB even if tis only making cups of tea and general office duties in return for there kindness...the debt crisis situation is only going to get worse in the future in the UK the way the economy is..

So what do I do go bankrupt?? or what any advice please would be most grateful

dalip

I wish you all the very best anne.I hope you get your fresh start.

BC alone is harrowing but there always seem to be something else to worry about.I have said so many times that is usually not debt alone that forces things,although it does play a big part. Berevement,illness,job,stress and family issues all play their part in the whole picture.Really they are all pieces in a jigsaw and we on this forum never really see the completed jigsaw. I would guess if a poll was done that 90% of bancrupts would say debt was the major contributing factor in not being able to cope with life.

Anyway that was all a bit deep for a sunday morn sorry.

skylight

Anne - the only question on here you cannot ask is "So what do I do, go bankrupt?" as its the only question we cannot answer for you. Its a life changing decision and although we can answer almost anything, offer support and a good laugh its the one thing you have to decide yourself.





But in your shoes, I personally would go for it.... ;-)

debt_doctor

Hi Anne just to confirm what I said earlier about rent arrears in BR when you already have a possession order in place;

If a suspended or postponed possession order for rent arrears is already in place when a tenant becomes bankrupt, and the tenant breaches the terms of the order, the landlord can seek a warrant for possession. Case law indicates that a landlord can apply for a warrant regardless of the point reached in the bankruptcy proceedings. Therefore, a trustee should allow a client to continue to comply with the terms of the suspended or postponed possession order, provided the cost of the accommodation is reasonable.

This includes social landlords in this respect. Our LA continue the process of possession if they have a pre BR order.

I shall look at the other issues you raised i a bit.

DD

AnnesWitterings

Hi Skylight


Yes i owe £11.567 in credit cards/catalogues and water rates/ and rentarrears/personal loan and small sundry debts

My elec and gas are clear at the moment by prepayment meters god that was tough, but actually i like paying for my fuels as i go

I am not bothered about the credit scoring impact of bankruptcy what I want is to be able to open my door without coming face to face with a bailiff and the council rent lady doing a jig about money.

The CAB man said my debt was small compared to his average debt of £50k plus that his clients have..but my £11k plus is HUGE to me.

I had a violent marriage and my sister committed suicide over debts in 2005 and I see my Bankruptcy as my shining beacon for a new life and start...but if I cant have Bankruptcy then surely there must be another avenue available???

I hate beauracrats and jobsworths and impractical inflexible rules...my problems are of my owndoing and I will sort them ut, the battle isnt over yet,
Im dithering about Bankruptcy now....which way does one go