home made sandwiches

ellice

Does your shop have A3 permission. if not the answer is no.

stephen77

geordie_joe wrote: »

Come on, make up your mind. Earlier you said

We are talking sales well over 10 million units with not a single person being ill

I said sales of over 10 million.
The 100 million sales is more likely what they are going to be selling a year. I do not have exact figures.
so yes they can sell 10 million sandwich with out being some one being ill.
When you get up to 100 million sales. You may get one or two people being ill with. But that may equate to 0.1 person per 10 million sanwich sales.

With out exact figure for tesco, we can only speculate.

Geordie_joe wrote: »

I'm that if every newsagent did start making their own sandwiches then some would make people ill. Just the same as when all car owners drive their cars some of them have accidents.

But we are talking about one specific MSE member here, and I happen to think we should give them the benefit of the doubt and not assume they are going to be less than their best in their venture.

Should we give everyone the benefit of the doubt then?
Should we have given the butcher the benifit of doubt?

I would imagine most people including the OP have the best intensions.

Geordie_joe wrote: »

No, but they can buy it from a reputable company and look after it while it is in their possession

Unlike the butcher who didn't give a sh*t what he did with it and killed 20 people.

There are many reputable companies. Thats my point about sandwich manufactures. Most are reputable.

Geordie_joe wrote: »

But you said that if you buy in sadwiches and someone gets ill you can blame the supplier. can you not do the same with the ingredients?



He was a qualified butcher, do they not get training, or have to pass a test to show they know things?

You can blame ingredient manufactore if they are at fault. Then can in turn pass on this issue to their suppliers as well E.G. the salt used for the brine was incorect. which in turn did not give it a lower AW. Thus both the ham and sandwich maker are not at fault. But the salt maker is.
This is just a example.

My point is about the butcher. He may just have basic food hygiene etc. Rather than him being malicous. He may thought he knew better and it was not going to harm anyone. After all he was open for a long time before anyone got ill so he got away with it for a long time.
I have not read the case notes so can't fully comment.
if he had done advanced food hygiene he may have realised the full issues of what he is doing.
Unfortantly its unrealistic to expect everyone food seller to have this. But if he knew the full implication of what he was doing. He may have not been quite so negligent.

r.a.i.n.b.o.w

Becles wrote: »

Contact the Food Standards Agency who will send you a pack of information telling you how your workspace must be set up for making the sandwiches.

Do you have a link for this please? Thanks!

Becles

http://www.food.gov.uk/

mommamoney

I used to work in a well known fast food chain. All the staff had hygeine certs but the public would not beleive some of the things that went on. We had a mouse prob in the kitchen for a long while, the mice actually pooed on the burger buns but the manager felt there were too many to throw out so just used them. Burgers older than 10 mins were supposed to go in the bin, they were kept heated in a 'chute' which meant bacteria mutiplying etc, they just stayed the untill the buns were to hard. Pickles and bugers were dropped on the floor but used anyway. It was the managers telling staff to do this. The lower staff members would throw things out and get a good telling off from bulling managers. I wont go on to say what happend to 'difficult' customers' food who complained, it aint pretty. There was a special way to wash and sanertise hands before shifts and everyso often whilst preparing food or btween workstations. There was a recomended time we'd have to wash hands for to, we'd all had the training and all the posters were up so we wouldn't forget. It was the managers telling us to cut corners and that we didn't have to do it as it took too long. Most of us did it anyway, I think just because we thought it was right. But there were a few people who were bullied by managers and supervisors because they were rule followers, there lives were made hell.
I had a friend who worked in cadburys and told how a 'agency' worker licked alot of cream eggs on a conveyer belt once.
Any one can get a certificate, it's easier than KS1 in my oppinion. It is a responsible person with respect for others or that little troublesome thing called a conscience that actually does things by the book.
Sometimes the cost of waste is too high (as in the fast food restaraunt) and sometimes people just don't give a damn.
In the resteraunt, we used to get regular inspections but they always warned us when they were comming so needless to say the place was gleaming and the food perfect (as perfect as fast food gets any how). I was really young, like most of my collegues it was my first real job, and when a bullying manager comes down on you, you really think no one will listen. Then when you find that the actual company don't really give a damn, it's all profit and loss to them, all you can do is walk out. There was a big case of ecoli in Wales in 2005/2006. all caused by a local butcher supplying meat to schools etc, when his premises were shown on the news, you'd never believe someone could work there and not report him, but they did. His premises were inspected, he was even 'endorsed' by local government. He sold new zealand lamb as welsh lamb, staff were not given soap to wash hands with as well as other very horrific things. That place passed inspecton! At least 150 were ill, people in Wales were actually fearing to eat and, sadly, a child died.
Yes hygeine is important, the question is WHO CARES? As it is clear, some people really don't.

To the OP, The sandwich thing sounds like an excellent idea. You really need to make the sarnies look attractive though. The ones in my local paper shop look horrible. Look at the ones you get in the boots meal deal, they look irresistable! You could do your own meal deal. A can of pop, a sarnie and some crisps. I have, in the past, spent a fortune in newsagents on pot noodles etc early in the morning on the way to work. I would defo have purchased a sarnie if they looked edible and the premises was clean looking.

A_fiend_for_life

Hi,

Just some thoughts on making your own. You'd also need to factor in waste, upgrading liability insurance, how many hours you are working on top of shop hours, how much would that increase your profits or pay, who supplies the ingredients and at what cost.

Also price of food is going up and people may change habits such as buying packed lunches. Hard to say in a tightening market and increasing food prices.

Sounds like your not happy with your current supplier or you can increase the profitability of that shelf space. You can do so by switching supplier: going for better price or better quality or a mix of both and see what your customers prefer.

If your going to make your own though and incur extra costs for licensing / registration(?) and training I would also make sure you get your money's worth and check your local authority out for free business appraisal too. Let them know what your planning and they can do the leg work for you too. You don't have to take the advice and it may highlight opportunities you didn't think about.

A_fiend_for_life

Fresh fruit would be nice with my sarnies too.

mindyourlanguage

A_fiend_for_life wrote: »

Hi,

Just some thoughts on making your own. You'd also need to factor in waste, upgrading liability insurance, how many hours you are working on top of shop hours, how much would that increase your profits or pay, who supplies the ingredients and at what cost.

Also price of food is going up and people may change habits such as buying packed lunches. Hard to say in a tightening market and increasing food prices.

Sounds like your not happy with your current supplier or you can increase the profitability of that shelf space. You can do so by switching supplier: going for better price or better quality or a mix of both and see what your customers prefer.

If your going to make your own though and incur extra costs for licensing and training I would also make sure you get your money's worth and check your local authority out for free business appraisal too. Let them know what your planning and they can do the leg work for you too. You don't have to take the advice and it may highlight opportunities you didn't think about.

I have just took on another supplier, so now I have two. The old ones a bit cheesed off buy hay that business!

Didn't know about the extra costs for licensing.

I think I'll stick with two for the time being and review it later when the market is more stable.

asfr01

Lizzieanne wrote: »

I agree, there are lots of rules and regulations - a friend of mine, until recently, owned a factory that made those prepacked sandwiches for shops, offices, hospitals etc.

Apart from the rules everyone else has mentioned, all the staff had to change completely into overalls and hairnets; no make up, jewellery or perfume could be worn and everyone walked through a specially prepared footbath before entering the food preparation area. And that was 'just' to make sandwiches!

I have a Food Hygiene Certificate and although some of you out there scoff at it and think it is ridiculous... you will learn a lot from it. Some of the things I just couldnt believe. This is definitely a sensible path to take.

When I worked with food as well I had to have a hair net on, a unifrom, no jewellery, always wearing gloves, no nailpolish etc, no perfume... and that was just to cut up samples of stuff and dish it out to the public!

A_fiend_for_life

There's licenses for just about everything unfortunately but you can always check to see if it is tax deductible though. But don't take my word on it for licensing for food prep though take it as a question mark. (I'll edit that!)

Would do good to find out all the licensing, training and registration that goes with it. Also council services can be quite inconsistent in what they charge for from one council to the next.

Thats good you've got a second supplier though. Keeps the supplier(s) on their toes and lets the customer decide.

Another thought though: does the supplier take back the sarnies that you don't sell and absorb the cost?