home made sandwiches

Little_Richard

How many sandwiches do you sell a day, then we can see if its worth the extra work you need to be up to standard.
If you google Food Standards Agency, on their website you can order a "Safer Food Better Business" pack for free, which will give you all the rules you need to follow to make food to sell to the public, its about 80 pages long.
Did you know you will need a some type of refridgeration unit in you car to keep the sandwiches cool as you travel to work, and record their temps when you get to work.
P.S. most people get food poisoning from eating their own food at home.

kim_ley

There is a newsagents/corner shop round corner from me and they do alsorts, they have a lil kitchen in the back and even do things like bacon sandwiches and you can even get a full english in a tray. If you are near alot of work me this would be a great idea. They do cold sandwiches too but there is rules about how long food can stand for etc also like you cant use the till and then make sandwich etc... but this would be a good idea because i dont know if you saw the prog on tv last night about whats in prepacked sandwiches but it would be great timing coz that certainly put me off!!!!!

stephen77

kim_ley wrote: »

There is a newsagents/corner shop round corner from me and they do alsorts, they have a lil kitchen in the back and even do things like bacon sandwiches and you can even get a full english in a tray. If you are near alot of work me this would be a great idea. They do cold sandwiches too but there is rules about how long food can stand for etc also like you cant use the till and then make sandwich etc... but this would be a good idea because i dont know if you saw the prog on tv last night about whats in prepacked sandwiches but it would be great timing coz that certainly put me off!!!!!

The man presenting the programme did not have a clue.
Hes is journalist and while the programme seemed like he had done his home work. it was riddled with contradictions.

eg he was moaning about salt levels in sandwiches.
Then he went to a tradational gam manufacturer who was coating his products in salt to preserve it and give it flavour.
But while the tradational ham is very nice and tasty (indulgent eat) it would have been slated if had been in a subway sandwich for being to high in salt due to the filling.
I am not a member of being anti-salt. But he was then raved about a product being high in it.
Plus the sandwich he made at the end of show. Was loaded with kcals just because it was such a big sandwich.
Again nothing wrong with high kcal meals but he is contradicting himself again.

geordie_joe

stephen77 wrote: »

1)LS13 said they do not know why you need a certificate.
Part of food safety is validation. Certificate and trained staff are a part of this.

Actually I think the phrase was

so your trying to tell me you need a certificate to say u washed ur hands before making the sandwich.

And my point still stands, you can know when you have to wash your hands without knowing you need a certificate for it.

stephen77 wrote: »

2) yes you can cut down over heads. But have a varied range of sandwichs and fillings is complex. It will come down to the range stocked.
They can try it. But to make lot of sandwich in the kitchen by hand can be very time consuming.

Yes, but we don't know how many sandwiches are involved. I presume the amount of work was the first thing the op thought of.

stephen77 wrote: »

As for quality of ingredients. Are you rearing the pigs yourself for the ham. Unless your picking the apples off the tree their is some processing always going on. The sandwich manufactures are buying the same ham your buying in the shops.

Did you miss the entire program, or just the bit about the ham?

stephen77 wrote: »

3) yep. no need for labels. But a need for technical information for your own record keeping. If some does become ill you have to show due diligence or you be liable.

But you have to do that anyway!

stephen77 wrote: »

4) while the word of mouth will not do you go good.
however if some one decides to sue. Blaming the supplier will stop you being responible if they are at fault. This can stop you being closed down, fined, prison etc.

I think it would take a bit more than just blaming someone else, someone who will also be trying their best to prove it was you that was at fault.

stephen77

geordie_joe wrote: »

And my point still stands, you can know when you have to wash your hands without knowing you need a certificate for it.

Basic food hygeine is a little bit more than washing hands.

Washing your hands is easy. anyone can stick them under a tap.
But how should some one wash their hands then for a high risk food operation production?

Geordie_joe wrote: »

Yes, but we don't know how many sandwiches are involved. I presume the amount of work was the first thing the op thought of.

We do not. The OP has asked a question that can be answered in one word "YES". End of thread.
however I think the OP knew that answer and probably wanted some more discussion.
We do not know the MSP and RSP for the sandwiches. The min order. Current wastage levels. daily fluculations in sales. Amount of staff. Hours of opening. Amount of different lines.
With out this info we can only speculate.

Geordie_joe wrote: »

Did you miss the entire program, or just the bit about the ham?

As i mentioned in a previous post. The ham part was a little contradicting to the programme rant on salt.
There are many quality hams used in sandwiches. Eg parma ham. Depends where you buy the sandwich from.
You get what you pay for most of the time.
If your buying a ham sandwich from a major retailer the amount of additivies in it has reduced over the last two years. MSG not been in major super markets sandwiches
for ages.
the tradational ham manufacture was still adding salt peter (soduim nitrate) which the super markets are all trying to remove or reduce.
The food industry is still going through its clean dec process but the food is getting more pure.
The food industry only sells what people will buy.
Programme like dispatches do not mention the price per kg the tradational ham manufacture is.
Go to a super market. Compare the sales of a premuim range ham to value and std hams. The premuim ham sales will be lower. The ingredients decs are on pack to allow people to make a choice. They choose the cheaper ones even though added water etc. They only care for about a week after programmes like this are on. Then go back to normal (cheaper) shopping habits.

Geordie_joe wrote: »

I think it would take a bit more than just blaming someone else, someone who will also be trying their best to prove it was you that was at fault.

I never said it would be easy. There will always be someone blaming someone else. But if your making sandwich from scrath. Your pretty much liable.
If the sandwich manufacture makes the sandwich and the chicken was not cooked properly (though this will be the chicken manufacture) your not be liable for this mistake.
Proving it will not be easy. But at least you have a chance.

XEO25

Just to add, it's not just you who needs the food hygiene certificate, it's anyone working with or around the food.

Richard019

stephen77 wrote: »

[/size]Basic food hygeine is a little bit more than washing hands.

Washing your hands is easy. anyone can stick them under a tap.
But how should some one wash their hands then for a high risk food operation production?

The point is being simplified. Just because you don't have a certificate doesn't mean you don't know what you need to do when.

I've got one of those certificates from my previous employment and I don't recall the necessity to have one being one of the things covered on the course. If I hadn't been told by my previous employer that it was required then I wouldn't know. The certificates are valid for 3 years (or at least mine is). At the end of those 3 years will I magically forget overnight everything I've been practising?

Had I not been told by my previous employer that it was a requirement, I could also now be in the position where I could train my staff to cover everything that the course covered. They would also know everything on the course, but wouldn't know that they needed a certificate. By your previous comment you wouldn't like to buy a sandwich from them because they don't know the basics.

stephen77

to a degree I agree.

however with out some kind of certificate I do not know that you and your staff know the basics.
You may think you do. But may have some of them wrong.
Of course I am not implying you do not know the basic.

But some people will not the basics when they think they do. Course do help.

Its like other trades. Would you get your car serviced by a none qualified machnic, who would you get to defend you in court?
You may know people who will be better suited than qualified people, but generally people will choose qualified staff.

Also basic food hygiene is pretty basic. When it gets to high risk food factory. Your need memebers of management with advanced food hygiene etc.
Your need accredation even to get the chance to knock on a super market door and ask to supply them.

Most case of food poisoning happen in the home. So lots of people do not know or follow the basics.

geordie_joe

stephen77 wrote: »

to a degree I agree.

however with out some kind of certificate I do not know that you and your staff know the basics.
You may think you do. But may have some of them wrong.
Of course I am not implying you do not know the basic.

But some people will not the basics when they think they do. Course do help.

Personally I think 99% of people in the UK have never been on a course or have a certificate, but the vast majority of them seem to be able to make sandwiches, and many other types of food, without giving themselves food poisoning.

stephen77 wrote: »

Its like other trades. Would you get your car serviced by a none qualified machnic, who would you get to defend you in court?
You may know people who will be better suited than qualified people, but generally people will choose qualified staff.

I think there is a difference between someone stopping you being hungry, and someone making sure your breaks stop your car when you are doing 70mph on a motorway. Having said that, many people do service their own car and nobody has ever said they cause more accidents.

As for the law, there's a bit of a difference between knowing you have to wash your hands before handling food and knowing the ins and outs of the legal system.

Your mother can teach you one, but you need to go to university for the other.

stephen77 wrote: »

Also basic food hygiene is pretty basic. When it gets to high risk food factory. Your need memebers of management with advanced food hygiene etc.

Have I missed something? I thought we were talking about a newsagent making a few sandwiches, can't remember anything about setting up a factory and hiring management!

stephen77 wrote: »

Your need accredation even to get the chance to knock on a super market door and ask to supply them.

Don't remember anyone wanting supply Tescos either!

stephen77 wrote: »

Most case of food poisoning happen in the home. So lots of people do not know or follow the basics.

Most sandwiches are made in the home, so you would expect that. But most cases of food poisoning in the home are from food bought from shops.

People buy dodgy ham from a butcher, make a sandwich with it at home and get food poisoning. OK, it was made at home, but who is to blame?

Saying most cases of food poisoning happen in the home is just like saying most people die in hospital.

stephen77

geordie_joe wrote: »

Personally I think 99% of people in the UK have never been on a course or have a certificate, but the vast majority of them seem to be able to make sandwiches, and many other types of food, without giving themselves food poisoning.

no food posioning does happen. Its not one of the major killers. But its generally preventable.
Most case are very minor so do not get reported etc

Can you answer the best way to wash your hands then?

geordie_joe wrote: »

I think there is a difference between someone stopping you being hungry, and someone making sure your breaks stop your car when you are doing 70mph on a motorway. Having said that, many people do service their own car and nobody has ever said they cause more accidents.

As for the law, there's a bit of a difference between knowing you have to wash your hands before handling food and knowing the ins and outs of the legal system.

Your mother can teach you one, but you need to go to university for the other.

Tell that to the people who died in Scotland when their meats got cross contaminated at the local butcher which result in about 20 deaths.
As I said food hygeine is a little more than washing hands.
or the recent cases of food poisioning in hopsital etc.

geordie_joe wrote: »

Have I missed something? I thought we were talking about a newsagent making a few sandwiches, can't remember anything about setting up a factory and hiring management!

By making their own sandwichs instead of the sandwiches being from a high risk factory. They are removing people from people who spent ther working life trianing in this feild.

geordie_joe wrote: »

Don't remember anyone wanting supply Tescos either!

using tesco as a example any supermarket is the same. They are scared of giving some one food poising even the most frail person. They will go to far greater levels to decrease the chances of people being ill.
We are talking sales well over 10 million units with not a single person being ill.

Ok the local newsagent is not going to sell as many units as this.
But just washing your hands as most peoples mums taught and a basic food hygiene certifcate trianing. It will result in a customer being ill.
Just as the sales are much lower they are less likely to inflict this on the general public.

geordie_joe wrote: »

Most sandwiches are made in the home, so you would expect that. But most cases of food poisoning in the home are from food bought from shops.

People buy dodgy ham from a butcher, make a sandwich with it at home and get food poisoning. OK, it was made at home, but who is to blame?

Saying most cases of food poisoning happen in the home is just like saying most people die in hospital.

Food poisoning happens for various reason.
You suggest they buy dodgy ham. Why is the ham dodgy? Does the butcher not know how to wash his hands?
if the local butcher is having these issues, what makes the little sandwich shop any different?

Lots of people like to blame shops.
eg prawn sandwich from any major retailer.
It was those prawns that gave me food posioning.
Yet the prawns had been washed in water that been sterlised in UV light. When caught packed straight in ice. Only defrosted long enough to clean.
then cooked using calibrated ovens. post cooking cooled to under 4centrigrade with in a hour. Then frozen with in a few more hours.
Some of the batch of sent off to a lab for micro testing before being sold.
when arrive at the sandwich factory. They will be defrosted seperatly in a enviroment where everyone has specail kit on and sterlised their hands.
If on defrosting the temp goes above 8c. they will be thrown away.
Packed into a sandwich which after making the sandwich will be under 5c with in 4 hours of making and kept at this temp all the way until store.
These are the extra lengths the food industry is going to that you can't realistically do at home.