Rented - who is responsible for gutters & hedges

Premier_2

tbs624 wrote: »

Debate is healthy.....






On window cleaning see: p42 http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft674.pdf

“Regulation 5: imposed an onerous obligation on the tenant by requiring tenant to clean the outside of windows.

Revised to clarify that the tenant is only obliged to clean the windows on the inside.”

You can't take case studies out of context. It's unclear about the particular property that particular rental agreement applied to. Perhaps it was top storey on the top of a tower block? (btw it's not on page 42 either, but is referred to in the document)

[quote=[/FONT]Whilst you were checking out oft356 there Premier did you also see on p78: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf

Transfer of landlord's repairing obligations

Unfair term

The tenant agrees to look after the property and in particular clean, and keep free from obstructions, all drains sanitary apparatus waste pipes and ducts belonging to, or forming part of, or which serve the property and in addition, where the property is a house, the gutters and sewers; and to keep the landlord and all other tenant and occupiers of the building of which the property forms part (if it forms part of a larger building) fully indemnified against his failure to comply with this covenant.

Ways of revising term

Sections 11-14 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 (as amended) apply to the agreement. These require the landlord to keep in repair the structure and exterior of the property and keep in repair and proper working order the installations in the property for the supply of water, gas, electricity, sanitation and for space and water heating.

The tenant agrees not to cause blockage to the drains and pipes gutters and channels in or about the property."

[/quote]

So confirming what I've already said The LL is responsible for keeping the gutter in a good state of repair, not for unblocking them from leaves etc.

tbs624 wrote:

and maybe you’d also like to check p125 at http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft669.pdf

“1(b): potentially allowed the landlord to derogate from his or her repairing duties by providing that the tenant must keep the drains, gutters and pipes at the property clear.

Revised so that it only requires tenant to keep drains and pipes clear of blockages caused by his or her own misuse.”

Yet another LL/LA favourite TA clause is the one requiring tenants to get the chimneys swept - also deemed to be an unfair contract term : oft669/oft674…..

As I said, it's dangerous to base your arguements on case studies that you have no other knowledge of. If that is your approach why did you bother looking for another link? There is reference in the first link you provided on page 35

"Revised to require the tenant only to notify the landlord of blockages and to keep the surface drain covers free from leaves and other waste."

Why is the tenant responsible to keep the surface drain clear but not the higher level? Perhaps again because its a towerblock? Notice how it still places an responsibility on the tenant to inform the LL of any apparent blockage, and so not to allow the build up of leaves etc to damage the guttering.

tbs624

Premier wrote: »

.......Notice how it still places an responsibility on the tenant to inform the LL of any apparent blockage, and so not to allow the build up of leaves etc to damage the guttering.

very much so and hence way back up the thread you'll see

tbs624 wrote: »

Gutters are the LLs responsibility .................always put requests for this sort of work to be dealt with in writing. You are then covered as you have behaved in what in LL &T legal -speak is called "a tenant-like manner" by drawing the LAs/LLs attention to a repairs/maintenance issue that could cause the property to deteriorate. It also means you have a paper trail if the work remains unattended to and damp becomes a problem.

I'm happy with my interpretation and you're clearly happy with yours: neither of us will convince the other.

Life would be so boring if we all agreed with one another all the time and all those poor lawyers would be short of work.;)

I would however always suggest to any tenant that they challenge these types of clauses.

olly300

pastmybest wrote: »

I paid for the conifers at the bottom of the garden to be trimmed a couple of years ago but they badly need doing am I (as the tenant) responsible?

The hedge, to one side, needs a good trim and thorn bushes (weeds) need to be cut back do I need to get this done?

Lastly I have paid before to get the guttering cleaned out as every time I mention to the LA they never arrange. Should they/the LL arrange and pay for?

Ignoring the discussion on the page.
1. Do you have a gardener who comes to regularly deal with your garden? If not then you are responsible for the general maintenance of the garden i.e. trimming hedges and removing weeds.

2. No landlord I know or have dealt with would want a tenant touching their trees. If you damage a tree or kill a tree it can't be rectified easily, and it's very hard for a landlord to chase a tenant for the full cost of compensation. So I suggest you get the LL address's from the LA. You have to ask for this in writing. In the letter state that under the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 section 1 you request the name and address of the owner of the property and that under the law they need to provide it to you within 21 days in writing otherwise you may resort to legal action to gain the information. Send one copy of the letter via recorded delivery and hand delivery another copy. Keep all records.

If this doesn't work then you just have to wait until a neighbour complains about the height of the trees as they will want to know the property owner.

3. I suggest you go to shelter.org.uk, read the website on landlords repairs and if you are still not clear ask them who is responsible for the gutters. As far as I am aware no landlord I know or have dealt with would allow their tenants to do this sort of maintenance mainly because they risk the tenant doing themselves and breaking the guttering. Again getting money out of tenants to rectify damage is not easy for landlords. (Shelter's pdf states the landlord may be responsible for cleaning the gutters.)

Premier_2

olly300 wrote: »

...Again getting money out of tenants to rectify damage is not easy for landlords...

That's why almost all insist on a deposit

=olly300 wrote:

(Shelter's pdf states the landlord may be responsible for cleaning the gutters.)

Yes, it says if it specifically states in the TA the LL is responsible for doing so e.g. annually

pastmybest

Thank you for all your replies. I've had the gutters cleaned out and the hedge trimmed back which for £50 I thought was very reasonable. I will take another think regarding the conifers as the quote for doing the job and removing the rubbish is £200 and by the sounds of it the LL should get done.