Bank Charges Financial Hardship Disussion

natweststaffmember

Gavhough wrote: »

Sorry that should be £1000!

i am currently £145 in arrears with council tax and getting red letters!

Thank god you said that. When you completed the income and expenditure form did you have a positive or negative balance?

Gavhough

natweststaffmember wrote: »

Thank god you said that. When you completed the income and expenditure form did you have a positive or negative balance?

It was roughly around £40 i have left for the month! I could have lied and made it less but they can see my account cant they?

natweststaffmember

Gavhough wrote: »

It was roughly around £40 i have left for the month! I could have lied and made it less but they can see my account cant they?

the positive can be seen as not being hardship. The £40 can be paid towards the arrears

Rickee

I've been trying to reclaim bank charges with HSBC and LloydsTSB due to hardship over the last year. Both cases are with FOS although I have reached the end with the HSBC complaint. The Lloyds one is still awaiting an adjudicator.

It took me a couple of months of almost daily badgering and letters to get HSBC to actually assess financial hardship. When they finally went through income and expenditure, they literally caught me off guard, included all of my girlfriends finances, and I forgot/estimated £100's out of my favour, the bank deciding that I had an disposable income and did not fall within their financial hardship parameters.

I called the FSA and asked them to clarify their hardship rules to ensure I was interpreting them correctly, advising of what had happened with HSBC. They told me they an income and expenditure form was not required and the banks assessment should be made using the guideline rules (£500 of charges in the last year, taking money out on a credit card, etc). I then went to HSBC who said I had to go through I&E again to try and reach a decision but it may not make much difference if the customer has already done it. They set up a call which I never received so I just went to FOS.

They confirmed the bank had done everything they could to help and had to agree with them. I requested that FOS made their own assessments as mistakes had been made with HSBC and their service was appalling. I was told I had to wait until the test case was completed as, even if I was found to be in a case of genuine financial hardship, nothing could be decided with regard to bank charges as the test case was ongoing and the legality of bank charges was yet to be decided.

When I disputed this my adjudicator at FOS passed my complaint to her superior who wrote to me with a sililarly damning letter basically saying I had to wait.

I then called him on his direct line and tried to find out what the point of the FSA guidelines were if they meant that when you were found to be in financial hardship, you still had to wait until the case was finished as the banks still had the option of making their own decisions on whether they 'dealt' with your complaint. In my eyes, dealing with your complaint about bank charges seems to mean a refund as there is no other possible outcome with regard to bank charges. No bank can currently decide to advise anything until the test case is finished because any comments they might make are still being decided on legally.

I was basically told that unless you are dying in a ditch, with millions of pounds worth of outstanding PRIORITY DEBTS' then there's no chance of getting your bank charges refunded at the request of the FOS.

I know people have got their bank charges back after claiming financial hardship but if your bank says no, don't expect FOS to do anything about it, unless you have some serious problems with priority debts like rent and council tax.

Thyrsday1

:money:Hya,

Please help, I am not sure where to send my letter to reclaim back my bank charges, would be my Bank, or do i send my letter to your self, Martin Lewis, i mean to your staff?

Thank you.

Please i do not under stand.


Yvonne Parker

esmerellda

Thyrsday1 wrote: »

:money:Hya,

Please help, I am not sure where to send my letter to reclaim back my bank charges, would be my Bank, or do i send my letter to your self, Martin Lewis, i mean to your staff?

Thank you.

Please i do not under stand.


Yvonne

Hi Yvonne

You should send your letter to your banks head office. If you let us know which bank it is someone will find the address for you.

Regards

Esme
xx

esmerellda

Rickee wrote: »

I was basically told that unless you are dying in a ditch, with millions of pounds worth of outstanding PRIORITY DEBTS' then there's no chance of getting your bank charges refunded at the request of the FOS.

I know people have got their bank charges back after claiming financial hardship but if your bank says no, don't expect FOS to do anything about it, unless you have some serious problems with priority debts like rent and council tax.

The reason banks are giving people some money back if they are in true hardship is the banking code and their commitments to assist people in trouble (also they are thinking ahead and possible consequential losses claims) If the charges contributed to hardship or were incurred within the period of hardship and not having anything back now will mean someone loses their home simply due to financial and a change in circumstances.

Some banks are more generous than others. Lloyds and HSBC are two of the strictest - we have seen some refunds under hardship from the bank but they have in the main part been people in exactly the situation you describe. And still then they only give what is needed to get out of an immediate problem and the remainder stays on hold.

Its incredibly difficult on here to tell peoples exact circumstances without seeing their IE sheets and knowing something of how they got in the situation. The FSA are monitoring things and are issuing updated guidance to the banks. But they can't order banks to refund individuals as the charges are legally chargeable.

If you live in a household/couple and share expenditure/income then you should give both salarys/benefits - hardship isnt something you can engineer.

Originally Posted by FSA letter dated 19th March extract re hardship
Minimum Standards for handling complaints where financial difficulty is claimed

where a complaint about bank charges also contains an additionl element where the customer is claiming or indicating they are experiencing financial difficulties we note that firms ( either individually or through the BbA ) have confirmed they will adopt minimum standards for handling such cases (the annex ) These minimum standards were drawn up in response to findings from our ongoing waiver monitioring visis to firms which have indicated inconsistencies in the treatment of customers claiming financial difficulties and identified some failings in the sypathetic and positive treatment of customers in financial difficulty.

Our waiver monitoring work is continuing and will incorporate assessments of the extent to which a firms approach to handling complaints where financial difficulty is claimed is in line with these minimum standrads.

If you have any questions about this letter please contact either [FSA staff member] or [FSA staff member]
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSA letter 19th March 2009 to firms

---

ANNEX - FINANCIAL DIFFICULTY

minimum standards for handling complaints where financial difficulty (FD) is claimed

I)firms to use their own records where available (eg. account activity and existing borrowing), to consider intially if the customer might be experiencing FD

only when this cannot be determined will it be appropriate for a firm to gather more information ie. issue an Income Expenditure form (''IE form'') FSA accepts that in a majority of cases it will be necessary to issue an IE form in particular before considering/rejecting a claim of FD.
nb. firms are also refered to 14.4 and 14.5 of guidance to the banking code.

II)if an IE form is issued the firm to provide a reasonable period of time before issuing a closure letter to the customer which should clearly explain the reason why the firm has not accepted the customer is not in FD and that the firm will reopen the case should the customer subsequently return the IE form

III)where an IE form is returned it is to be reviewed by adequately trained and experienced staff to assess if the customermight be experiencing fd and the extent of the problem. staff should be able to interpret information to make an informed judgement which is clearly documented and in line with internal policy and guidance (including considering if a customer may have under declaared their outgoings) an appropriate course of action should be taken dependant on the extent of the problem IE. some customers may only require guidance on what to do, others may require more immediate action.

IV) any correspondance issued to the customer that provides detail of the decision taken by the firm must be compliant with disp requirements eg. it should clearly explain the outcome of the investigation and the rationale for the decision and provide details of how to investigate the complaint if the customer is not happy with how it has been resolved. (this included cases rejected because the customer did not return the ie form)

V) firms to provide a range of measures to support customers and to treat them positively and sympathetically
nb2)firms are also refered to sections 14.2 and 14.3 of the guidance to the banking code.
these might include: help and guidance about dealing with fd and avoiding charges; suspending collections and recovery activity; suspending accrual of further interest and charges; consideration of a refund of charges, in particular where the charges may have added to the FD during, or immediately before, the period of FD. The rationale for why a particular level of refund has been given should be documented and clearly explained to the complainant.


The minimum standards are not handbook guidance but rather update firms on the findings of good practise from our thematic review of the handing of unauthorised overdraft complaints.

The minimum standards do not purport to define the suitability standards for unathorised overdraft charge complaint handling. Firms should have regard to the minimum stndards in deciding what action they need to take to complay with the FSA handbook and the waiver. There may be serval ways of complying with the regulatory requirement and folowing guidance or other materials we publish such as the letter issued on 13th november 2008 is only one approach. for further information please refer to the section on fsa guidance and supporting materials in our enforcement guide paras 2.22 to 2.27 ( FSA Handbook - Full Handbook ) actually __> http://fsahandbook.info/FSA/extra/5149.pdf

A firms senior management remain responsible for establishing and implenmenting effective controls over unauthorised overdraft charge complaint handling..

Rickee

Yeah, I am in financial hardship and have a DMP with CCCS. They've recently endorsed my financial hardship status but my rent, council tax and utilities are pretty much up to date. All my debt is with banks and credit cards, etc so none of it will seem important enough to get a refund on the charges.

Just wish I knew this at the beginning because I have spent way too much time with phone calls and letters trying to get this sorted but now I have to wait.

jonpnash

No, I didn't go to the FSO without the basic!!. The statistics section of my forum response are referring to a time when I actually incurred the charges. i.e. around 3-5 years ago. My financial difficulty situation, refers to my present situation. Of course, my other account is not in credit while claiming financial difficulty. Anyway, Co-op are not arguing that I am not in financial difficulty, this they acknowledge completely.
Would have been more helpful with regards to your response, is to give an answer to the main question, i.e. how can the bank can just do nothing, even when then acknowledge your financial difficulty. They argue that if you read the annex to the waiver, then all they are obliged to do is to treat your case sympathetically. Which in their case means just offering some financial advice from a financial advisor. Which doesn't really solve anything.

natweststaffmember wrote: »

Where are your priority debts(rent/mortgage, council tax, utilities)?
Since you would have had more than sufficient in the other joint account, you went to the FOS on the face of what you have written without the basics

"For the purposes of this direction, a complainant is considered to be in financial difficulty when his income is insufficient to cover reasonable living expenses and meet financial commitments as they become due;"
That is at 13.19 of the FSA Waiver on Bank Charges.

daz2bedebtfree

my claim has been assigned to an officer of the financial ombudsman under hardship against lloyds tsb,
however ive just noticed that lloyds tsb have stuck a big default on my credit file , surely they cant be doing this as they know the accounts been in dispute since 2007 also i not6ice that they say i defaulted for £2323 my claim against them is for £2700any ideas folks :mad: also wish to point out that the bank closed my account when i offered them a payment arrangement to clear my overdraft