No information being given for extension on the house we are purchasing.

Doozergirl

I'm glad there's been some progress at least.

I can assure you that a disclaimer counts for nothing the act actually says that.

It's not building control/council that you need out to look at it. They will know what to look at but it is definately a structural engineer! They will actually be answerable to you.

I think that the vendor should pay for the inspection.

Can you bang out a quick email to your solicitor and their EA and be clear in your request. Point out very politely that this potential for a second storey is a main reason for the sale and that you genuinely would not be purchasing the house without it. If the vendor had not mentioned it, you would have felt the house too small for the long term. The fact that the vendor did mention it and that the sales particulars describe it, means that they both have a very keen and proceedable buyer in an uncertain market place. As they have highlighted the potential and gained their buyer that way, it is absolutely crucial to the quick completion of the sale that this potential is proven.

And then ask, if they are not prepared to pay for that, that the price is reduced by the cost of underpinning as your solicitor says.

OR, and here we go. You cite the Property Misdescriptions Act to the Estate Agent and request that as there is absolutely no proof of what they have described that they contribute to the cost of the Structural Engineers fee in the form of a discount to the vendors in the event that all is well. (I have previously managed £1000 off a vendor's EA fee given to me in the form of a discount on the property! It was a complete struggle when they started denying all knowledge and wriggling on exchange day, but I got hold of their area director by phoning through another office! So it is possible and in this market, I think more so than it was two years ago when I did it)

Fact is, if these people are going to sell you something on a particular basis, it's their responsibility to prove it. The cost of that is small in relation to the financial gain. Be firm but always polite - not threatening to pull out! and you wil get what you need, I'm sure.

Keep up the good work!

Incisor

PRINCESSKERRY wrote: »

... A bit more info today, I called our estate agent and advised them what was going on. I told them it may be something silly like solicitors not asking the right info etc so could we have another viewing of the house and we will have a chat to the vendors.
Our agents asked to call us back and in the meantime called the vendors solicitors and the vendor themselves.
It seems the vendor is really keen to move still and is hoping to work towards a completition date of August 11th, despite not responding to the queries surrounding the white goods or extension yet. It also seems that our agents may have been passing on wrong info and asking for planning permission for the extension whereas in fact we are wanting to see some evidence of the joists and foundations.
The vendor is a draftsman and therefore drew up his own plans though they have not been signed by anyone and are his own ''messy'' copies. It seems like there will be no evidence they can show us at all. Though the vendor has said they are happy for someone to come out from the council to inspect the extension to prove the foundations and ceiling joists are adequate.
Our agent feels like this should be down at cost to ourselves which I strongly feel should not be the case. I have layed it on the line and asked her would she pay 200k for a house and take someones word for it that they could extend only then to find out you couldn't but the vendors have left the country.
There is no way the vendors would get anywhere near the price we have paid for the house, firstly they had no one interested enough to make a single offer in over 7 months and secondly if another buyer is interested in purchasing and like us wants to extend they are going to have to fork out money to check that what the vendor is saying is true.

Do you think this is right, that we should be paying for a building inspector to come in and check the foundations etc. The way I loook at it is that they shouldn't be selling the house with these specifications as they hae no evidence to support it.

Our solicitor has suggested asking someone to give us a quote to underpin and then ask for that amount off the price we are paying.
I just wish things were simple, I am very worried that we will lose our buyers with the time it will take if we pull out of this sale and purchase another house but at the same time dont know whether to accept the situation the way it is.
The vendors are very stubborn as far as it comes to price and I dont think they would probably take a drop in price so that may determine it anyway. I quoted to the agent there own paragraph in the property misdescriptions where it says the agent has not tested any equipment, fixtures or services and as so does not verify they are in working order, fit for their purpose, or within ownership of the sellers therefore the buyer must assume the information is incorrect.
Therefore surely I should assume the ceiling joists and foundations are not adequate unless I see proof.

Your Agent? I'm confused. Do you mean your Vendor's Agent?

Actually, so much looks wrong about this, that in your position, I would walk away. You feel under pressure now, but the longer you leave it to come to the decision the more probable it is that your buyers move on.

Just look at how you would feel 2 years from now, if all the things you doubted about this house came true. I think you will be able to find a new house quicker than you could really get the issues sorted on this one. The issues are not ones which will be fixed for you either by reducing the price.

Your choice is to take a risk with losing your buyers or risk buying a real lemon. I know which risk I would rather come home to roost.

PRINCESSKERRY

Incisor wrote: »

Your Agent? I'm confused. Do you mean your Vendor's Agent?

Actually, so much looks wrong about this, that in your position, I would walk away. You feel under pressure now, but the longer you leave it to come to the decision the more probable it is that your buyers move on.

Just look at how you would feel 2 years from now, if all the things you doubted about this house came true. I think you will be able to find a new house quicker than you could really get the issues sorted on this one. The issues are not ones which will be fixed for you either by reducing the price.

Your choice is to take a risk with losing your buyers or risk buying a real lemon. I know which risk I would rather come home to roost.

Hi, sorry to confuse you we both have the same estate agents. They are rubbish and I wish was buying through another agent but it's the way it fell.

Incisor

PRINCESSKERRY wrote: »

Hi, sorry to confuse you we both have the same estate agents. They are rubbish and I wish was buying through another agent but it's the way it fell.

Ah, OK, clear now.

planning_officer

Lawyer2B wrote: »

As a residential conveyancer ...Point to note - time limits for the council to take enforcement action are 10 years for planning and 1 years for building regs.

Just to clarify: 4 years for planning actually (4 years for operational development (i.e. building works) and 10 years for a material change of use of land/buildings or non-compliance with a condition attached to a planning permission).

PRINCESSKERRY

planning_officer wrote: »

Just to clarify: 4 years for planning actually (4 years for operational development (i.e. building works) and 10 years for a material change of use of land/buildings or non-compliance with a condition attached to a planning permission).

Hello

The update here is we still do not have a straight answer though have been into the solicitors twice and think we may have seen some progress.
It seems the vendors have contacted the local council building control department by phone and letter, requesting details of the foundations and ceiling joists.
They also sent us black and white pictures of the foundations, though they are so dark and have no measurements you are just looking at a picture of a shallow hole.

waggys

photos mean diddley squat!!!!!!! - they could be relating to another property (you don't know). Building control won't charge you for coming out to inspect - but they can't inspect if the foundation etc isn't already exposed - they aren't goingh to do it themselves. I would say it is up to the vendor to prove; not for you. I wouldn't be prepared to exchange etc before knowing for definate.

PRINCESSKERRY

Well our buyer has now asked for a completition date of two weeks time. We are stilll no further ahead despite everyone asking questions, vendor, solicitor and estate agent.
We have still not been given permission to contact the coucil but we have had the letter from the vendor so we know he is in contact with them.
We told our solicitor last week how serious the situation was getting as didn't want to leave it so late that the chains mortgage offers would be expiring.
I have contacted the estate agent of the other house we were originally interested in (though have told them there are three houses we are interested in, two of which are with them) to find out if they are vacant. Both properties would be and as we like both we now know we have alternatives.
We feel we are going to go back to the solicitor tommorow and ask to revise the price by £10k, we are currently paying just short of 200k, family have said up to 15k to make sure we are safeguarding ourself but I feel this may be a step to far for the vendors.
Our biggest worry is we know that when it comes to us getting planning permission the building inspector is going to want to see proof of the foundations and then we are going to have to dig inspection chambers to provide this.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I really hoped that we would get the evidence we wanted but for whatever reason it is not looking likely and we are not in a position (not having permission) to source it ourselves.
Also reducing the price paid by 10k would only save us 4k (the other 6k would have been borrowed money), would this be a suitable buffer for any work needed to prove the foundations at a later date.

Just reading my writing this now is making me wonder if going wih the other house is not a better idea. I do think this house has got the right foundations but I think they have made a almighty mistake not making sure they have evidence of this.
Also the certificate they have from the building regulations just states a singles storey extension, would there be any mention of the additional foundations and ceiling joists on there?

Doozergirl

£10k *should* be enough to complete 10 linear metres of underpinning! More than enough to prove the existing foundations!

PRINCESSKERRY

Doozergirl wrote: »

£10k *should* be enough to complete 10 linear metres of underpinning! More than enough to prove the existing foundations!

Thankyou for your response Doozergirl it is really appreciated.

Can I ask do you think this sounds like reasonable action? We are having information left right and centre from family members but it is all differing, and my FIL is the most negative. He believes the foundations are okay but is just worried about the evidence (he has experience in the building trade) but I think he would rather we pulled out and lost our buyers as wasn't that keen on us moving in the first place.
I think it's just the change, he helped his son do up the current house we live in, and my husband would always ask him for advice now having a wife obviously we listen to his advice but dont always follow it to the latter.
We dont want to make a mistake which makes it even more confusing when everyones opinions differ.
We have been informed we could take it further if it comes out at a later date that the extension is not suitable for a second storey but I really dont want it to go down that route.
I do think that if we go with the other house we may lose our buyers, but really questioning whether it is worth the risk.
The house we are buying is better for us as a family sadly, though the other is very nice.