ebay to only accept PayPal in future

masonic

The fatal flaw in the paypal system is that they can't recover funds if they aren't in the seller's paypal account. Using paypal as a vehicle for credit card payments is considerably safer than making funds payments, though.

soolin

For me some protection is better than nothing. If I make a bank transfer or send a cheque, that's it, no comeback. If I use paypal I still only buy from regular sellers who look like they will have a steady turn over of income through their paypal accounts. I also always use credit card funded payments through a bank I know will assist with paypal problems.

I also believe that having the ability to start a chargeback is a lever in itself, sometimes it panics the seller into a refund. I have started several chargebacks and have never had to wait for paypal to resolve one, I have always been refunded by my seller almost immediately. In one case for a small item admittedly, a seller of collectables appeared to have some sort of crisis and after several months of successful trading suddenly stopped sending items out, I had my chargeback in quite early as I had received no communication from the seller after payment. He refunded me within 24 hours of the chargeback going in, and then I watched for the next few weeks as he picked up negs from lots of other people for non delivery..many of whom mentioned things like chq cashed and no refund offered. I really believe that I would have lost my money from that guy if I had used a cheque.

Soo

Road_Hog

soolin wrote:

For me some protection is better than nothing.
Soo

Soolin, you are quoting from a buyers perspective. There is little protection for a seller.
For me the proctection of Nochex is great. As a power seller (based on turnover not 99p widgets) who has had a fraudulent chargeback only this week, PayPal is a very unfair system that has virtually no arbitration system and even as a powerseller on merchant rates you cannot get any sense out of them.

I sell laptops and mobile phones, putting me probably in the highest risk category. At the moment, I can insist that someone without a confirmed address or too low feedback uses Nochex or another form of payment.

And what of the PayPal pathetic seller protection. They have to have a confirmed address for £500 (laptops are more than that). What is Paypals solution, refund the payment as I will not be covered by unconfirmed address payments. So, how do you think the buyer will react, when they find I have refused their money? They'll be !!!!!! off, but even though I have followed PayPals guidance, the customer will blame me and whilst a sale has actually taken place, the auction has and they can Neg me for non supply.

I rely on good feedback for my sales and also to maintain the powerseller logo.

I'm already paying £20 to ebay to sell a laptop and £22 to Paypal, there isn't the margin to stick in a fraud element in each sale as well.

If ebay insist on their own in house payment system (for those that don't know, ebay own PayPal) I and many other sellers will leave ebay. You may say it doesn't matter, but customers like to buy from me. They can see that I give good service from my feedback, they can get knowledgeable answers to questions about the product before they buy, prompt delivery or scheduled delivery such as despatched on Friday to arrive Saturday. You just can't get most of that from shops.

It will be the good sellers who leave, leaving the fraudsters to make their money. Ebay have become too greedy and complacent, hopefully Google Auctions will come soon and we can all kick ebay in to touch.

masonic

Road_Hog,

What is the chargeback protection like with nochex?

Road_Hog

masonic wrote:

Road_Hog,

What is the chargeback protection like with nochex?

Excellent, along as Nochex don't think you're trying something fraudulent.

Basically they don't do chargebacks, they factor it in as part of their commission. Only if they thought you were in on a fraud trying to defraud them of money would they do anything.

http://help.nochex.com/esupport/index.php?_a=knowledgebase&_j=questiondetails&_i=79

Lower charges than PayPal

http://help.nochex.com/esupport/index.php?_a=knowledgebase&_j=questiondetails&_i=53

If the purchase is under £100, they buyer doesn't even have to register, they just have to fill in their credit card & address details, much the same as you do when you buy online from a shop using a card.

Here's the downside, nearly everyone, has a PayPal account, not many have heard of Nochex and most customers just want to hit the pay by PayPal button. So to be honest, it is only useful for high value purchases at risk of chargeback or where you are selling fairly unique items that the buyer will go to the toruble of paying by Nochex.

masonic

Thanks. I am quite surprised that they are willing to shoulder the cost of fraudulent transactions. Presumably, protection against credit card chargebacks for goods not received and items not as described follow the paypal precedent: i.e. if you can supply the necessary evidence to nochex to successfully fight the claim, you will not lose out? I couldn't see anywhere that they specifically covered this, but as they don't have their own chargeback procedure, it probably isn't for them to deal with that issue.

All in all, it seems like it would be a bit more hassle for a buyer to get their money back, but, using a credit card for payments, the level of protection is the same as paypal. Of course, for the seller, it is better than paypal because there is no risk to them associated with fraud. If it ever became as popular as paypal, I dare say things would change.

soolin

Road_hog, I'm a seller rather than a buyer on ebay. However, as a seller I need to know what most buyers will use for payment after all I can insist on buyers only paying in camels if i wanted, but if I want to make sales I have to go where the buyers are.

I used to offer nochex but gave up as no one ever used it. Likewise, if someone new asked on this forum about the best way to pay for something to give them some protection they would be told to use paypal, so we need to expect our own buyers to insist on the same.

Also, I still believe that while there are sellers who take no responsibility for their packages that anyone buying would be foolish to use a system that offers no protection. So as sellers we need to somehow factor in buyer preferences and still make ourselves as safe as we can.

AS a seller I offer paypal, cheques and a direct bank transfer, I even send an end of auction email that has my bank details on it for ease of use. However, 99% of my auctions are paid by paypal, so ignoring that buyer preference would be foolish of me.

Soo

soolin

masonic, here is the bit about nochex not 'doing' chargebacks as long as sellers abide by the rules and can be seen to be acting in good faith:

http://help.nochex.com/esupport/index.php?_a=knowledgebase&_j=questiondetails&_i=79

However, there is this post on the ebay forums which I think I am allowed to pst, about a chargeback and how it affects the seller:

http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=200253262&tstart=0&mod=1128959739065

Soo

masonic

soolin wrote:

masonic, here is the bit about nochex not 'doing' chargebacks as long as sellers abide by the rules and can be seen to be acting in good faith:

http://help.nochex.com/esupport/index.php?_a=knowledgebase&_j=questiondetails&_i=79

However, there is this post on the ebay forums which I think I am allowed to pst, about a chargeback and how it affects the seller:

http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jspa?threadID=200253262&tstart=0&mod=1128959739065

Soo

Road_Hog beat you to it on the nochex link.

It would have been very interesting to see what would have happened if the seller in question in your second link had not authorised nochex to make the refund. Would they really have written off £800 I wonder?

In any case, nochex seem only to cover fraudulent payments in their policy. The thing I am not absolutely clear on is what happens if a buyer starts a credit card chargeback for, say, goods not received? Would the seller have to prove delivery to protect themselves? The buyer would clearly get a refund, but I presume nochex would not shell out themselves for an item that may have been lost in the post.

Similarly, if an item is not as described, the buyer could potentially get a refund through a credit card chargeback, but since they would have to return the item to the seller as part of the process, I can't see nochex writing off the loss to themselves.

thegateway

I think paypal is trying to hold the monopoly in e-commerce marketplace as a whole something like what microsoft enjoying so far.