MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Arkwright give Granville his money back?



  • trejoy
    trejoy Posts: 74 Forumite
    Yes of course he has to give money back, you can have him done for overcharging if he doesn`t. I would take photo of the laptop with the price displayed first, just in case. anyhow, what kind of plonker doesn`t check before paying!:confused:
  • markflip
    markflip Posts: 5 Forumite
    This is a different slant on a common occurrence - an innocent mistake is made initially and no offence is committed at this point as there is no dishonesty - the concept of Mens Rea 'guilty mind' has been mentioned in other posts and is a necessary component of an act of theft.

    However, as Arkwright has appropriated property (ie the excess 100 pounds) belonging to another (Granville) the moment he realises his mistake and decides to keep the extra money he has acted dishonestly and with the intention of permamently depriving Granville of his property and thus commits an act of theft contrary to s1-7 Theft Act 1968 :naughty:
  • Cloudane
    Cloudane Posts: 524 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary
    Often you get told "please check the amount and enter your PIN" - if that happens I would guess that they're legally covered. A bit like those places which put up a sign saying "please check your change as mistakes cannot be rectified after you leave the store", they can probably get away with it, although the effect on their customer service reputation is questionable.

    It's probably worth noting though, that this is a moral dilemma, not a legal one. Morals and legality are not necessarily the same.

    I think I have a habit of checking, but it's interesting, and probably a good idea to make sure. What if they displaced a couple of decimal points (easy to do on some screens) and he got charged £39999 instead of £399.99 and didn't notice - would those who've shown no sympathy, still continue to hold the same view?
  • Richard019
    Richard019 Posts: 460 Forumite
    First Post First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    Legally the shop can keep the money unless the laptop is returned and a full refund given. There is no obligation to sell at the lower price that's displayed, however on being told that the price displayed is different to the one being charged the correct price must be put in it's place.

    What's important here is that it says it was mistakenly rung up at £499. That means the shop is supposed to be charging £399 so I would imagine the return of the £100 would be immediately agreed to as the scanning produced the error.

    If on the otherhand it was supposed to be £499 and the price card was the error then my view changes based on the attitude of the customer.

    If the customer was a pain in the rear end, then I'd take the legal position regardless. They can either have a refund or accept the price.

    If the customer was understanding about it and appreciated the situation wasn't an attempt to rob them then I'd look to help them more. Again it's likely the legal position would be taken but there'd be some kind of goodwill gesture made as well.

    If it were my own business then I'd quite likely just take the loss but then I am one that takes responsibilty for my mistakes and irrespective of the legal position I'd view it as my responsibility to make sure that I was displaying the right prices. However, as above, if the customer was protesting rather than just complaining there is no way I would pay out.
  • Melly31
    Melly31 Posts: 109 Forumite
    Yes of course he should; I am sure that there are laws preventing this & it’s hardly Granville's fault Arkwright hasn't trained his staff correctly is it?
    The item states it is for sale for £399, whilst I know that had there been an error with the labelled price, the store does not have to honour that price, but when Granville bought the item nobody notified him of that error, nor did they specify a price when he checked out (if he was paying cash they'd of pointed it out!). Those card machines can be hard to read & I do not see why a customer’s trust can be held against him?
    Worst case scenario, the shop accepts a return & refunds his card the full amount, he's then free to shop elsewhere & hopefully get a better deal!
  • iviv
    iviv Posts: 572 Forumite
    ntownads wrote: »
    Yes, arkwright has to give his money back, if the laptop is advertised as being £399 it has to be sold at that price (or lower), granville (assuming he has his receipt which will state time, store, assistant and price, etc) he will get a refund and no doubt a hefty apology and probaby a free laptop bag if he moans enough!

    This is a common misconception that several people do not realise. The price on the shelf edge means nothing. It is an indication of how much it should cost, but the final say is whatever is inside the till. 99.9% of the time, the till and shelf prices will match, but if there is a mismatch, the till is always right. If something is listed as more expensive on the till than the shelf edge, people will often complain, and the large shops will often reduce the price to match what it says on the till, but this is just to keep you happy, they are under no obligation to.
    As rikgear said, they should change the shelf edge or till so there isn't a mismatch, as many people won't notice the difference or forget what the shelf said.

    Again, in this case the customer authorised the shop to take £499 from their account by entering the PIN. At this point, the sale is done, the customer agreed to buy it at £499, and it is their fault for not checking that its come up at the right amount, and then for not checking when they get the receipt.

    Cloudane got it right when he said this isn't a legal problem at all. The law is clear, and currently in favour of the store. Morally, the store should either refund the £499 to his card, which they would probably have to do as he's returning it before using it, but I'm not going to go into that). Or they should refund £100 back so he get the laptop for £399.
  • The retailer is responsible for the ensuring the price displayed or advertised is the price charged, if the goods have been accidentally mis-priced the retail is within his rights to withdraw the item from sale.
    However if the goods are priced / advertised at a price this price must be honoured at the point of transaction (the till) in ther case of a genuine mistake then obviouly the retailer must issue a refund for the difference.( as we are all human and mistakes do happen.) failure to do this would render him in breach of the sale of goods act and liable to receive a visit from trading standards.
    incidently in the case of being undercharged at the till, is's up to your own concience-Technically the bargain for the sale in this instance is actually struck with the cashier at the till point and unless the customer has acted fraudulently - ie changed price tags / boxes the goods are yopurs at the price the cashier charged you
    consider this a bit of an insentive for the retailer to sharpen up their act on the pricing of goods- clearly and acurately for everyones benifit
  • JayD
    JayD Posts: 698 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker First Post
    Of course Arkwright should refund the overpayment.
    Easy peasy that one!
  • Sally87
    Sally87 Posts: 54 Forumite
    pezza88 wrote: »
    The dilemma is that when undercharged, people say to keep the money and when the shop is overpaid, they say to get your money back.

    Either you correct any mistake (for or against you) or you take the rough with the smooth. Anything else is hypocrisy pure and simple.

    I don't think it is a case of the situations being complete opposites though; in both cases it was the person at the till who made the mistake, the customer just unintentionally helped it along!

    Having said that, last week I said I'd give the money back and I think this week the shopkeeper should do the same, for the sake of the business if nothing else. I don't care about the legal bit, this is a moral dillema.
  • KEIR_2
    KEIR_2 Posts: 1 Newbie
    TESCO do NOT refund double. As a result of a recent blatant 250% overcharge on huge store promoted grapes 500g at 99p actual price £2.49, and the dispicable way in which that store which I pass on my 42 mile each way commute to and from work resolved the issue I have not been to the Man in 2 months, so far they have lost over a grand in sales namely 680 from fuel and near on 500 or so on foods.

    You mustve been lucky.

    The dilema over the laptop is theft the £100 should have been refunded and dependant on the owner either compo on top or a discount voucher for future purchases as a good will gesture if it was PC World and you really kicked off you'd get an item free up to a specified value at the managers discression. Been there done that.

    Ikea and John Lewis for instance give food vouchers or refund mileage costs. They dont actively promote it you gotta ask but with IKEA if your a local local your in the vacinity and you will get nowt.
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