choosing between electric portable heating and oil fired boiler

nickynysmon

thought I would post my original words on this forum which seems more apposite to what I had to ask. I will use bot my postings , maybe someone can throw some light on it for me?
1stI am new to this forum and for this post ask for any help in deciding whether to switch completely to electric or stick with oil. my boiler is three years old about, and is currently out of action. accepting oil prices will increase by at least twenty five percent, and living alone in a small bungalow , I am wondering if it is wise to stick with oil or try electric portable heaters. last week I bought the new dimplex eco cadiz oil free radiator, which is a wonderful device, and am thinking of buying three more this coming week also I am having an electric water heater installed, all very expensive. my thinking is, by selectively heating each room, and the water I use, or simply turning it all off if I am out, this will compensate in plenty for the higher cost per kilowatt of electricity. no one seems to have the calculations on all this but I am hoping by stripping out all wasted energy it will in effect save a lot of money. plus, no boiler to maintain. I may be doing something very reckless and unwise or very imaginative and saving money!! any ideas please??

after cardews suggestions..
thank you for this, the biggest factor in my calculation is efficiency of usage. living completely alone, and assuming I stay in one room most of the time it seems inefficient to heat all the house. I wonder if by being very selective how rooms are heated one can make great savings
also the cost of maintenance is nil. as far as water goes, the cost of heating a large tank in the boiler and the fact we waste a lot of water that is always heated makes this usage inefficient. I am hoping to save two hundred pounds a year, or more. a typical oil bill for the year is about eight hundred pounds. at .12 pence a kilowatt shall we say, this gives at least 66oo kilowatt hours of electricity, such is my thinking. am I right??? I will look at the other threads you mention though.

amtrakuk

Great minds think alike!

My gas combi boiler packed up and was going to need replacing. I have learnt that a good quality modern gas boiler will last about 10 years before it needs replacing again.
A good quality gas combi boiler will cost between 1 - 1.5K. You then have to have it installed (My replacement and commissioning was gonna cost another 1k) so thats 2.5k all in all.
On top of that you have maintenance on top, say £10 a month. Work out the depreciation (2.5k / 10 years / 12 months works out at just over £20 a month depreciation. Add your service contract of £10 a month and then add you're fuel bill ontop (my gas was 60.00 a month) came to 90.00 a month.

I'm sure I could heat, cook and bathe for less than that which I could. During the cold winter we had a few months back my electric bill per month was about 80 - 110.00. Now the warmer weather is here, the heaters are off and so my bill has dropped to between 50 and 70 a month.

As you suggested selective heating is the key. I got a 3 KW Wall mounted thermostatic convector from Argos from the front room and 4 x 2 KW thermostatic convectors from Argos in the kitchen, bedroom and 2 spair bedrooms.

I went for Convector instead of oil filled (radiator type) for the instant response - tried oil filled but took along wile to react. I did try a convector with an integrated turbo fan but found that drove me and the neighbors mad as the fan would kick in when the thermostat clicked on and I kept turning the tele up. Also the vibrations resonated round the house! I'd also avoid a heater with a mechanical timer as I would never use it! When Im out the room for a long time (going to bed, going out for the night) I'd turn the thermostat down to frost protection, there's no point in heating a room you're not in. When I come home after a days work, if the rooms cold I'd crank the thermostat to the max until the room got to temp then I'd back it off to the temp I was happy with. Also if your a light sleeper like me the clicking of the timer drove me insane.

Hint - If you are going electric get a sparky in to put some electric points in, it may cost you a couple of hundred notes but you'll know it is done professionally and safe. I'm speaking from experience after having 2 x 3KW heaters on the same ring main and when both came on they literally blew the fuse box apart!

While he was doing the repairs to my electric circuits I got him to put in a 50A supply for an electric cooker and reserved one for a 12 KW on demand heater. Not that I use the cooker, but it might come in handy if i have people over and doing a roast. As I'm on my own i generally use an induction hob I picked up off ebay for 30.00 - works a treat and for an oven I got a nuwave counter top oven.

I dont know what your going to do for hot water but I spend 200.00 on a 12 KW Redring Powerstream, the plumber stung me for 300 to install that, mind you he did isolate the combi boiler and drain down the old radiators. the power stream is the size of a shoe box and clicks on only when you turn the hot tap on (much like a combi boiler). Therefore there is no standing heat loss from a cylinder.

Hope this helps.

nickynysmon

after writing off a hundred pounds from having my oil fired boiler so called 'mended', I have now mothballed it. what I have done now is the following. from argos, I have bought two , with two more to come, dimplex eco cadiz 2kilowatt heaters with climate control. one similar heater I bought today again from argos in llandudno, such lovely people there to serve you, God bless them, and this heater has just a normal thermostat, and is in the bathroom, for the occasional heat . for the hot water, i ordered a one kilowatt water heater, a heatrae streamline seven liters. this i installed myself as I do all my own plumbing etc. it was done in about four hours and with no leaks. by installing it myself i saved near a hundred pounds.
the whole setup has cost seven hundred pounds but the economics are as follows. assuming the oil fire boiler has a maximum life of ten more years, it will need replacing, I installed it myself having had no experience at all of plumbing, but it taught me a lot doing it. even so a new one will cost about fifteen hundred pounds . the costs over ten years of maintenance, will be at least the cost of the electric heaters so this will be recovered. also, by selectively using my heating, money should be saved there. also most central heating, is overused, a house gets too warm, rooms are heated that aren't used. same for hot water. because it is on stream we use it more than we should
let me know your thoughts on this, I will be very interested.
one last note, the new eco cadiz radiators are oil free portable heaters, more efficient, than oil based. they have some kind of ceramic in them. the climate control is more efficient than normal thermostat, according to the dimplex website.

Cardew

amtrakuk wrote: »

My gas combi boiler packed up and was going to need replacing. I have learnt that a good quality modern gas boiler will last about 10 years before it needs replacing again.
A good quality gas combi boiler will cost between 1 - 1.5K. You then have to have it installed (My replacement and commissioning was gonna cost another 1k) so thats 2.5k all in all.
On top of that you have maintenance on top, say £10 a month. Work out the depreciation (2.5k / 10 years / 12 months works out at just over £20 a month depreciation. Add your service contract of £10 a month and then add you're fuel bill ontop (my gas was 60.00 a month) came to 90.00 a month.


Hint - If you are going electric get a sparky in to put some electric points in, it may cost you a couple of hundred notes but you'll know it is done professionally and safe.

Interesting thread.

It is little short of a disgrace that modern boilers stuffed full of electronics only have an expected life of 10 years - something that has been stated in a lot of publications I have read.

The economics above are depressing enough, but even more so when you take into account that the interest £2,500 invested at 7%(or borrowed) is another £175 a year to add to the 'hidden' costs.

This is exactly the reason why I and others on this forum are hanging on to our old fashioned 20 year old non-condensing boilers with, in my case, an efficiency of 65%.

My boiler would cost a lot more to replace than £2.5k and with an annual spend of approx £800 on gas, I suppose I might save £250pa with the latest boiler - so the economics for justifying a replacement don't add up.

The point must be coming, for oil and calor gas CH, where electricity even at normal rates is an option to be seriously considered.

In fact if gas was not available for me, I would go for Economy 7 with modern storage heating and top up where required with fan heaters.

One point on getting in an electrician to carry out work. This is now mandatory for all but the most simple of electrical work.

amtrakuk

nickynysmon wrote: »

after writing off a hundred pounds from having my oil fired boiler so called 'mended', I have now mothballed it. what I have done now is the following. from argos, I have bought two , with two more to come, dimplex eco cadiz 2kilowatt heaters with climate control. one similar heater I bought today again from argos in llandudno, such lovely people there to serve you, God bless them, and this heater has just a normal thermostat, and is in the bathroom, for the occasional heat . for the hot water, i ordered a one kilowatt water heater, a heatrae streamline seven liters. this i installed myself as I do all my own plumbing etc. it was done in about four hours and with no leaks. by installing it myself i saved near a hundred pounds.
the whole setup has cost seven hundred pounds but the economics are as follows. assuming the oil fire boiler has a maximum life of ten more years, it will need replacing, I installed it myself having had no experience at all of plumbing, but it taught me a lot doing it. even so a new one will cost about fifteen hundred pounds . the costs over ten years of maintenance, will be at least the cost of the electric heaters so this will be recovered. also, by selectively using my heating, money should be saved there. also most central heating, is overused, a house gets too warm, rooms are heated that aren't used. same for hot water. because it is on stream we use it more than we should
let me know your thoughts on this, I will be very interested.
one last note, the new eco cadiz radiators are oil free portable heaters, more efficient, than oil based. they have some kind of ceramic in them. the climate control is more efficient than normal thermostat, according to the dimplex website.

Hi Nick,

I went initially for the Bionaire convection heaters from Argos (052/1383). Nice in principle (thermostat in the removable digital "pod") but a couple of things persuaded me to give up on them the heaters kept failing (The heaters just died - power light on but wont activate, the fan noise caused the metal case to vibrate, heater and "pod" would loose their partnership)

I then tried Delonghi (052/1668), mechanical timer ticking kept me awake, didnt know a timer was included and didnt want to use a timer as I wont have full control, ie heating if i wasnt in the house.

Went for dimplex -052/1936 for the front room and 415/9139 for the rest of the house. Ticked all the boxes, cheap, simple (Just a mechanical thermostat so in theory very reliable) no timer, wall mountable.

Regarding you're hot water, do I gather you already have an electric shower? 7 Litres wont go very far. I think i know the model, an over sink water heater. A friend of mine uses them for the flats the have. Really quite efficient. Put a monitor on the mains supply and on standing it only clicks on for about 3 minutes every 4 or 5 hours to top the heat up.

I was thinking and did buy of ebay an unvented 100 litre cylinder as i have high pressure water I thought why not. I then read the installation was going to be a nightmare as a specialised plumber was needed for installation and yearly inspection to check the safety valves. Service contract here we come!

In the end I got a powerstream to supply hot water as and when i needed it without having to rely on timers or waiting for a tank to heat up.
http://www.fastlec.co.uk/redring-powerstream-12kw-instant-water-heater-rp12-p-2154.html?zenid=5554b500307af412434a3970b43aa38d Although it isnt as powerful as a gas combi boiler it does the job.

amtrakuk

Cardew wrote: »

Interesting thread.

It is little short of a disgrace that modern boilers stuffed full of electronics only have an expected life of 10 years - something that has been stated in a lot of publications I have read.

The economics above are depressing enough, but even more so when you take into account that the interest £2,500 invested at 7%(or borrowed) is another £175 a year to add to the 'hidden' costs.

This is exactly the reason why I and others on this forum are hanging on to our old fashioned 20 year old non-condensing boilers with, in my case, an efficiency of 65%.

My boiler would cost a lot more to replace than £2.5k and with an annual spend of approx £800 on gas, I suppose I might save £250pa with the latest boiler - so the economics for justifying a replacement don't add up.

The point must be coming, for oil and calor gas CH, where electricity even at normal rates is an option to be seriously considered.

In fact if gas was not available for me, I would go for Economy 7 with modern storage heating and top up where required with fan heaters.

One point on getting in an electrician to carry out work. This is now mandatory for all but the most simple of electrical work.

Hi Cardew,

I totally agree, it is a sad fact that modern equipment rely too much on ICs and in my view a built in expiry period. I've become very skeptical about modern technology these days after all companies don't want you're appliance to last for decades as sales wont look good. Its true what you say about old appliances, my mother changed her old AEG princess SL (30 yrs of faithful clothes washing service) the replacement has lasted about 5 years and the motor has failed. Thats why I wanted to keep my heating / hot water as simple as possible. No Silicon chips to fail.

I didnt think of the interest in the "hidden costs". the figures you give just ad to the woe. i hear old glow worm gas boilers are abit like my mothers old AEG washer. There is very little to go wrong and from what I hear most are still going strong.

From what I hear the price of oil has risen again this week, no doubt that will trickle down as fast as a ton of bricks to the poor oil fired boiler users.

You mention storage heaters, i did consider these but the price of new ones looked very daunting. I havent had experience of these, now I accept there has been improvements with head leakage during the day when you dont need heat. My father has moved to a village with no gas and said he was staggered about good they were unfortunately the electric supplier stabalised his account and he wasnt so pleased.

Oh another thing, if any peeps are thinking of going electric, CAP YOUR TARRIF!

nickynysmon

the reason I went for a one kilowatt water heater is installing it yourself. a three kilowatt redwing was a hundred pounds cheaper about, but then I had to have an electrician take it from the mains on a twin pole isolation switch. I believe in doing all my own work, up to point. whilst the capacity is not high, for a person living alone and now economizing greatly on how much water he uses, it is adequate. one misses the loads of water coming from the oil boiler, but as i said one realizes now how much is wasted, I waste little now.one major concern is getting hold o a plumber on Angelsey, a noted problem I believe. there are some very goo ones but I think hey are trying to get rolls royces if you take my point. I have the immense satisfaction now of being independent of all this hassle at last. I will read what you each have said again with much interest, many thanks.

amtrakuk

Lol - I like you're way of thinking, although I would need more hot water for showers etc. Oddly enough people still think Im mad of getting rid of gas.

It makes me think how they come to that conclusion and all I can think its because their parents used gas, their grandparents use gas etc and Its cheaper per unit without considering the hidden costs.

have you capped your electric tariff? I am with eon and got price protection till mid 2009, there's a 40% increase in energy this year!

nickynysmon

i've recently increased my direct debit with eon, and if I stay within it it should be a lot cheaper than oil. I am still unclear what tariff to use. there is a tariff that stays cheaper than british gas until '09, but I am uncertain which is the best way to go. they have kindly put me on the 'electricity online extra saver' which seems about the cheapest. am I being cynical in wondering if all these tariffs are meant to seduce people into paying too much through too much choice? they wouldn't do that would they?
I have an idea that we use far too much energy water for instance because we have so much at our finger tips. if we only used what we heated ie a water heater, we will learn to use what we need. I have learned that hot water is not neccessary for washing pots. I always rinsed my pots under the hot water tap. now I find cold water is quite okay. so long as plenty of detergent is used. this must save half my bills at least. also cleaning, a bucket of scalding water is quite uneccesary, again so long as there is plenty of detergent in it. as for a shower, I have a ten kilowat electric in the bathroom which is excellent.
next week I am buying the last of my heaters from argos for the kitchen and hall. then so far as plumbers go I am self sufficient. all the worry and expense gone .
I am still uncertain about the best tariff, uswitch says british gas is the cheapest but I am happy with eon for now. any suggestions?

amtrakuk

You could try looking at u switch, although personally being a new electric convert I cant really give accurate answers to the questions. I have in the past given meter readings over the phone and asked them to calculate my bill, thats something British gas was able to do but eon doesnt?

Either way I think it is a good idea to cap your electric account ASAP, it might cost a little bit more now but it will be cheaper than when the energy prices go up by 40%. I myself are with eon.

I was chatting to a mate who says British Gas and u switch are related somehow. I dont know how much truth there is but I wouldn't be suprised.

I agree with you when you say alot of people waste hot water. I am careful which is why I went for the power stream - Its down to self control.

I used to know someone (until we went our separate ways after many arguments about me dropping gas!!!) who was very wasteful. Every time he washed down the work surfaces I used to cringe as gallons and gallons of hot water went straight down the plug hole, nearly every conceivable light was left on in the house all day etc. On one hand he said he didn't want to live in twilight and liked his daily baths then on the other hand he had a fit every time his bill came through!

I do draw the line at washing up as hot water is needed to kill the bacteria. I know someone who has taken this to the extreme and doesnt use hot water to wash up - well he does but leaves it in the bowel and carries on using it all day. He lives in a 2nd floor flat and lives in one room of it basically, his electric bill is only £35 a month but there again the land lady does the washing which he pays for separately and there is a shared bathroom with a 20p electric meter outside for the shower.

Surprisingly most of his electric goes on his tele and PVR setup (about 200 watts) and the fridge freezer that seems to go on every couple of hours for about 40 mins at a time, am wondering where savings can be made to my fridge which seems to have the same pattern, perhapse a mini fridge as I only have milk, beer and a couple of other things in there.

nickynysmon

I m still not convinced that HOT water is strictly necessary, so long as strong detergents are used and we rinse things properly. (Nor do I like cold water). too much is made about heat, most bacteria will withstand at least sixty degrees which is too hot for most of us to bear. I think I am right. it is largely psychological I think. I have calculated some tariffs on eon, but will consider what you say about capping my payments. oil may reach one seventy, too many vested interest are involved to see it goes down. I read earlier that the previous increases have still not come through to the pumps, which is worrying to say the least expect another five pence on petrol i think. My own usage is going down all the time save for the odd run out.
I am watching my bills, on a three monthly basis, and from end september then from end of december I should be able to say definitively if this whole exercise is worthwhile. I may post my conclusions then. definitely no more plumbers for me!!!!