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  • FIRST POST
    • paulfoel
    • By paulfoel 12th Nov 15, 6:18 PM
    • 5,342Posts
    • 2,546Thanks
    paulfoel
    Letter from sky - GoldenEye claim I file shared!
    • #1
    • 12th Nov 15, 6:18 PM
    Letter from sky - GoldenEye claim I file shared! 12th Nov 15 at 6:18 PM
    I haven't I should add.

    Apparently, a company called GoldenEye have got a court order to get my name because I've been illegally filesharing.

    Funny thing is if you go to the goldeneye website it seems more concerned with fighting piracy than anything else. I can smell a scam.

    Awaiting a speculative invoice now. Sounds very fishy to me. I'm guessing they do very well out of people who get scared and just pay up.

    Looks like they do porn films as well. Obviously, they know that if they sent letters in the post demanding payments for downloading porn then this may carry more weight. Can just imagine it. Husband gets letter and thinks flipping heck better pay this before wife sees it.

    Absolutely scandalous behaviour. Should be illegal.

    As someone who works in IT, know that an IP address can in no way be used as absolute proof. Its just too easy to spoof. I can't see how they've got a leg to stand on unless they come into your house and find said downloaded file on your computer.
    Cymru am Byth !!!
Page 1
    • Lorian
    • By Lorian 12th Nov 15, 6:30 PM
    • 4,125 Posts
    • 2,258 Thanks
    Lorian
    • #2
    • 12th Nov 15, 6:30 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Nov 15, 6:30 PM
    They do appear to have a list from sky:


    http://help.sky.com/articles/details-of-copyright-owners-who-have-obtained-court-orders-in-unlawful-file-sharing-cases


    Not to difficult to defend I guess, especially if you have a dynamic IP addr. I'd wait for a response from someone legal before deciding to respond or ignore.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 12th Nov 15, 6:51 PM
    • 4,099 Posts
    • 4,460 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 12th Nov 15, 6:51 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Nov 15, 6:51 PM
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/copyright/the-internet-filesharing-and-copyright/if-you-re-accused-of-online-copyright-infringement/
    • paulfoel
    • By paulfoel 12th Nov 15, 9:37 PM
    • 5,342 Posts
    • 2,546 Thanks
    paulfoel
    • #4
    • 12th Nov 15, 9:37 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Nov 15, 9:37 PM
    Apparently they did this a few years ago. Its appalling. It seems all the need to do is supply a list of IP addresses and the court will give up names.

    Its not hard to work out Sky's dynamic IP address range so they could just make them up!

    Send out letters (apparently last time they asked for £700) and they KNOW that they will get a certain % who will just pay up guilty or not to make it all go away. Like I said when theres porn involved it can cause a lot of unease and trouble for people possibly. Easy pickings for them. I dont know how they sleep at night.

    I just read that the guy behind all this has said hes not earning much from people who buy his DVDs so hes going to make money from people who don't buy them.

    Surely in the UK in 2015 it can't be right that someone can send out letters threatening legal action and demanding money when they have little of no proof in any case?
    Cymru am Byth !!!
    • onomatopoeia99
    • By onomatopoeia99 13th Nov 15, 8:45 AM
    • 3,634 Posts
    • 7,995 Thanks
    onomatopoeia99
    • #5
    • 13th Nov 15, 8:45 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Nov 15, 8:45 AM
    Apparently they did this a few years ago. Its appalling. It seems all the need to do is supply a list of IP addresses and the court will give up names.
    Originally posted by paulfoel
    Norwich Pharamacal order, the mechanism by which a court orders a third party with information about a suspected crime or tort to give up that information. The person / organisation seeking the order would have to present evidence to the court explaining why they need the information, what those they are seeking information about are suspected of and so on.

    If on a dynamic IP address the ISP would need to consult their RADIUS logs for the time specified to determine which subscriber had that address allocated at that time. ISPs do know and record this stuff.

    Of course the applicant could "make them up" but since that would be perverting the course of justice as they form part of an application to the court, it would be a particularly stupid person that did this for the sake of £700, given the starting point for PCoJ sentencing is generally a year behind bars.

    It should absolutely not be illegal for copyright holders to seek recompense from those that violate their rights under the CD&PA. Are you suggesting that we should abolish copyright? That is the logical conclusion of saying it should be illegal for a copyright holder to pursue someone suspected of copyright violation through the courts.


    Anyway, have a read about ACS:law, who were the legal firm behind a lot of this a few years ago and responsible for a significant proportion of all complaints to the SRA that year. That should provide a starting point for further reading about how to deal with th e letter you have received.
    INTP, nerd, libertarian and scifi geek.
    Home is where my books are.
    • paulfoel
    • By paulfoel 13th Nov 15, 9:47 AM
    • 5,342 Posts
    • 2,546 Thanks
    paulfoel
    • #6
    • 13th Nov 15, 9:47 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Nov 15, 9:47 AM
    Norwich Pharamacal order, the mechanism by which a court orders a third party with information about a suspected crime or tort to give up that information. The person / organisation seeking the order would have to present evidence to the court explaining why they need the information, what those they are seeking information about are suspected of and so on.

    If on a dynamic IP address the ISP would need to consult their RADIUS logs for the time specified to determine which subscriber had that address allocated at that time. ISPs do know and record this stuff.

    Of course the applicant could "make them up" but since that would be perverting the course of justice as they form part of an application to the court, it would be a particularly stupid person that did this for the sake of £700, given the starting point for PCoJ sentencing is generally a year behind bars.

    It should absolutely not be illegal for copyright holders to seek recompense from those that violate their rights under the CD&PA. Are you suggesting that we should abolish copyright? That is the logical conclusion of saying it should be illegal for a copyright holder to pursue someone suspected of copyright violation through the courts.


    Anyway, have a read about ACS:law, who were the legal firm behind a lot of this a few years ago and responsible for a significant proportion of all complaints to the SRA that year. That should provide a starting point for further reading about how to deal with th e letter you have received.
    Originally posted by onomatopoeia99
    Yes, I work in IT so aware of dynamic IP but IMHO:-

    1. I don't have complete confidence in the accuracy of what the ISP could provide.
    2. IP address is too easy to fake or spoof. Proves nothing.

    As for not making up the IP addresses. Come on - this is hardly a reputable company. And they know most courts would never understand how it all works.

    Not saying copyright holders should not have the right to look after their rights. But in this instance, the copyright holder has made a bit of business out of this whole thing.

    They KNOW that guilty or not a lot of people will pay up. Especially so when the word porn is mentioned. People will pay just in case to make it go away.

    Its nothing but legalised blackmail.

    Yes I've read about ACS. That didnt go too well for them - same company. Sadly, it looks like they think theres mileage in doing it again.

    I read somewhere that the fella behind this has said he doesnt make money out of selling porn but its lucrative getting money out of people who dont buy porn.
    Last edited by paulfoel; 13-11-2015 at 9:49 AM.
    Cymru am Byth !!!
    • almillar
    • By almillar 13th Nov 15, 12:35 PM
    • 7,118 Posts
    • 2,863 Thanks
    almillar
    • #7
    • 13th Nov 15, 12:35 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Nov 15, 12:35 PM
    I hope the copyright holders of the James Bond franchise chase them for copyright infringement!
    • ChiefGrasscutter
    • By ChiefGrasscutter 13th Nov 15, 3:09 PM
    • 2,063 Posts
    • 1,984 Thanks
    ChiefGrasscutter
    • #8
    • 13th Nov 15, 3:09 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Nov 15, 3:09 PM
    I haven't I should add.

    Apparently, a company called GoldenEye have got a court order to get my name because I've been illegally filesharing.
    Originally posted by paulfoel

    Well in your post No 7 in the thread below you said you would be using the connection for amongst other things "torrents"
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=64325176

    Then there is the small matter of the previous 'letters' sent to you about filesharing and giving you warnings - post No 28
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1673825&page=2
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 13th Nov 15, 4:39 PM
    • 9,964 Posts
    • 4,104 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    • #9
    • 13th Nov 15, 4:39 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Nov 15, 4:39 PM
    Torrents and now a 3rd warning letter difficult to prove your innocence .
    • paulfoel
    • By paulfoel 13th Nov 15, 5:00 PM
    • 5,342 Posts
    • 2,546 Thanks
    paulfoel
    You do all know that torrent is just a delivery/download method don't you? There are lots of legal applications thereof.

    Also, 2009. I remember now. Nope, innocent then too.
    Cymru am Byth !!!
    • Roland Sausage
    • By Roland Sausage 13th Nov 15, 5:38 PM
    • 511 Posts
    • 353 Thanks
    Roland Sausage
    As someone who works in IT, you should know how to avoid getting caught when you decide to download dodgy material
    • diamonds
    • By diamonds 13th Nov 15, 5:39 PM
    • 5,987 Posts
    • 1,603 Thanks
    diamonds
    Challenge them, I sent one letter for a BT Broadband customer threatening small claims for the amount asked, court costs and defamation of alleged criminal activity under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 and unless proof was sent to validate their claim and payment requested as asked would be paid to themselves on production of such evidence, and as expected the issue disappeared in 2009 - its a complete scam, they want your cash.
    SO... now England its the Scots turn to say dont leave the UK, stay in Europe with us in the UK, dont let the tories fool you like they did us with empty lies... You will be leaving the UK aswell as Europe
    • diamonds
    • By diamonds 13th Nov 15, 5:43 PM
    • 5,987 Posts
    • 1,603 Thanks
    diamonds
    Brief outline

    Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, the principal legislation covering intellectual property rights in the United Kingdom and the work to which it applies.
    Introduction
    Copyright law originated in the United Kingdom from a concept of common law; the Statute of Anne 1709. It became statutory with the passing of the Copyright Act 1911. The current act is the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988.
    Rights covered
    The law gives the creators of literary, dramatic, musical, artistic works, sound recordings, broadcasts, films and typographical arrangement of published editions, rights to control the ways in which their material may be used.
    The rights cover; broadcast and public performance, copying, adapting, issuing, renting and lending copies to the public.
    In many cases, the creator will also have the right to be identified as the author and to object to distortions of his work.
    International conventions give protection in most countries, subject to national laws.
    Types of work protected
    Literary
    song lyrics, manuscripts, manuals, computer programs, commercial documents, leaflets, newsletters & articles etc.
    Dramatic
    plays, dance, etc.
    Musical
    recordings and score.
    Artistic
    photography, painting, sculptures, architecture, technical drawings/diagrams, maps, logos.
    Typographical arrangement of published editions
    magazines, periodicals, etc.
    Sound recording
    may be recordings of other copyright works, e.g. musical and literary.
    Film
    video footage, films, broadcasts and cable programmes.
    The Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations 1992 extended the rules covering literary works to include computer programs.
    When rights occur
    Copyright is an automatic right and arises whenever an individual or company creates a work. To qualify, a work should be regarded as original, and exhibit a degree of labour, skill or judgement.
    Interpretation is related to the independent creation rather than the idea behind the creation. For example, your idea for a book would not itself be protected, but the actual content of a book you write would be. In other words, someone else is still entitled to write their own book around the same idea, provided they do not directly copy or adapt yours to do so.
    Names, titles, short phrases and colours are not generally considered unique or substantial enough to be covered, but a creation, such as a logo, that combines these elements may be.
    In short, work that expresses an idea may be protected, but not the idea behind it.
    Who owns a piece of work
    Normally the individual or collective who authored the work will exclusively own the work and is referred to as the ‘first owner of copyright’ under the 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act. However, if a work is produced as part of employment then the first owner will normally be the company that is the employer of the individual who created the work.
    Freelance or commissioned work will usually belong to the author of the work, unless there is an agreement to the contrary, (i.e. in a contract for service).
    Just like any other asset, copyright may be transferred or sold by the copyright owner to another party.
    Rights cannot be claimed for any part of a work which is a copy taken from a previous work. For example, in a piece of music featuring samples from a previous work, the copyright of the samples would still remain with the original author.
    Only the owner, or his exclusive licensee can bring proceedings in the courts.
    Duration of copyright
    The 1988 Copyright, Designs and Patents Act states the duration of copyright as;
    For literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works
    70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last remaining author of the work dies.
    If the author is unknown, copyright will last for 70 years from end of the calendar year in which the work was created, although if it is made available to the public during that time, (by publication, authorised performance, broadcast, exhibition, etc.), then the duration will be 70 years from the end of the year that the work was first made available.
    Sound Recordings and broadcasts
    50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was created, or,
    if the work is released within that time: 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was first released.
    Films
    70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last principal director, author or composer dies.
    If the work is of unknown authorship: 70 years from end of the calendar year of creation, or if made available to the public in that time, 70 years from the end of the year the film was first made available.
    Typographical arrangement of published editions
    25 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was first published.
    Broadcasts and cable programmes
    50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the broadcast was made.
    Crown Copyright
    Crown copyright will exist in works made by an officer of the Crown, this includes items such as legislation and documents and reports produced by government bodies.
    Crown Copyright will last for a period of 125 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was made.
    If the work was commercially published within 75 years of the end of the calendar year in which it was made, Crown copyright will last for 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which it was published.
    Parliamentary Copyright
    Parliamentary Copyright will apply to work that is made by or under the direction or control of the House of Commons or the House of Lords and will last until 50 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was made.
    Restricted acts
    It is an offence to perform any of the following acts without the consent of the owner:
    Copy the work.
    Rent, lend or issue copies of the work to the public.
    Perform, broadcast or show the work in public.
    Adapt the work.
    The author of a work, or a director of a film may also have certain moral rights:
    The right to be identified as the author.
    Right to object to derogatory treatment.
    Acts that are allowed
    Fair dealing is a term used to describe acts which are permitted to a certain degree without infringing the work, these acts are:
    Private and research study purposes.
    Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes.
    Criticism and news reporting.
    Incidental inclusion.
    Copies and lending by librarians.
    Format shifting or back up of a work you own for personal use.
    Caricature, parody or pastiche.
    Acts for the purposes of royal commissions, statutory enquiries, judicial proceedings and parliamentary purposes.
    Recording of broadcasts for the purposes of listening to or viewing at a more convenient time, this is known as time shifting.
    Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program.



    More info:
    Intellectual Property Office
    Concept House
    Cardiff Road
    Newport
    South Wales
    NP10 8QQ
    Tel: 0300 300 2000
    www.ipo.gov.uk


    PRS for Music (Performing Rights Society)
    29-33 Berners Street
    London
    W1P 4AA
    Tel. (0207) 580 5544
    www.prsformusic.com


    Copyright Licensing Agency
    Saffron House
    6-10 Kirby Street
    London
    EC1N 8TS
    Tel. 020 7400 3100
    www.cla.co.uk
    Last edited by diamonds; 13-11-2015 at 5:47 PM.
    SO... now England its the Scots turn to say dont leave the UK, stay in Europe with us in the UK, dont let the tories fool you like they did us with empty lies... You will be leaving the UK aswell as Europe
    • diamonds
    • By diamonds 13th Nov 15, 5:46 PM
    • 5,987 Posts
    • 1,603 Thanks
    diamonds
    Full legislation (amendments of April 2015 not yet added) http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/contents
    SO... now England its the Scots turn to say dont leave the UK, stay in Europe with us in the UK, dont let the tories fool you like they did us with empty lies... You will be leaving the UK aswell as Europe
    • Peirre
    • By Peirre 13th Nov 15, 6:07 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Peirre
    Its well know that those using torrent sites to download copyright material are easy to trace, & over several years there have been widely publicised stories of various site being forced to close. This is why downloading material without using a VPN are leaving themselves open to being sued.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 14th Nov 15, 10:19 AM
    • 9,964 Posts
    • 4,104 Thanks
    JJ Egan
    They simply put up a movie or such and then monitor those connecting to it .
    • paulfoel
    • By paulfoel 16th Nov 15, 2:49 PM
    • 5,342 Posts
    • 2,546 Thanks
    paulfoel
    Challenge them, I sent one letter for a BT Broadband customer threatening small claims for the amount asked, court costs and defamation of alleged criminal activity under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 and unless proof was sent to validate their claim and payment requested as asked would be paid to themselves on production of such evidence, and as expected the issue disappeared in 2009 - its a complete scam, they want your cash.
    Originally posted by diamonds
    Ha ha. That does sound like fun.
    Cymru am Byth !!!
    • rizla king
    • By rizla king 17th Nov 15, 6:17 PM
    • 2,837 Posts
    • 1,892 Thanks
    rizla king
    https://torrentfreak.com/sky-warns-subscribers-of-more-piracy-threats-incoming-151116/
    Still rolling rolling rolling...... <----- SIGNATURE - Not part of post
    • MataNui
    • By MataNui 17th Nov 15, 9:18 PM
    • 884 Posts
    • 460 Thanks
    MataNui
    I cant see how they could possibly get anywhere in court.

    An IP address cant be used to identify a person. There are 7 people who legitimately have access to the wifi network in my house. There are 15 who have access to the wifi in my mums house (and my mum isnt one of them).

    Even if they tried to stick it on the account holder there are other big problems with their arguments.

    If this was a criminal case an IP address (even reliably obtained) wouldnt get to court. The CPS wouldnt touch a case like that with a barge pole. Without other information it probably wouldnt even get a knock on your door by the police. To get to court would require hard evidence obtained by forensic examination of hard drives etc.

    Then there is the 'reliably obtained' thing. If they want to take the case to court they would need to supply your legal representation with the full technical details of how the address was obtained and how they tracked it back to you. There are some pretty reliable ways to obtain a users identity but an IP isnt one of them.
    • Futuristic
    • By Futuristic 17th Nov 15, 9:22 PM
    • 726 Posts
    • 362 Thanks
    Futuristic
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34842863
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