When did this change?

moneyistooshorttomention · 4 May 2015 at 7:21PM

The question has arisen as to at what point things changed from:

- It was deemed to be good manners/considerate/etc for a guest to eat whatever food/drink was put in front of them even if it would make them ill/they hated it etc etc

TO

- It is now deemed to be good manners/considerate/etc for the host to ensure that their guest can eat and enjoy the food/drink put in front of them even if they have specific dietary requirements (for whatever reason - be it health reasons eg gluten-free or personal choice eg vegetarian etc)

I thought things "swung around" at around some point in the 1970s and the onus then went onto the host to provide food their guests would be able to eat/enjoy.

Is that correct?

I know I personally have been following the second idea (ie guests should be able to eat/enjoy their food) since some point in the 1980s and am not sure at what point the general viewpoint on this changed.

I thought absolutely everyone now accepted that the host has responsibility of ensuring their guests only have food presented to them that they can/will eat...but have found this doesn't seem to be the case yet with everyone...and this came as a surprise to me (as I thought all hosts now cater for whatever dietary requirements their guests have). You name it and that's what get served up here - be it vegetarian/vegan/gluten-free/macrobiotic/etc/etc...

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Mr_Singleton · 4 May 2015 at 7:29PM

I suspect the answer is in the reason they're being invited around for a meal.

They're friends? so why would anyone want to serve a vegetarian friend a roast chicken knowing they can't eat it? or a peanut allergy sufferer peanut butter? and then think how sodding inconsiderate of them to die at your dinner party.

BTW I doubt your first statement was ever totally true.

moneyistooshorttomention · 4 May 2015 at 7:35PM

Good point re the reason why someone has been invited around.

I don't/have never moved in those circles where meals are part of very "formal" etc etc things.

If I invite someone around then its because they are a friend and it seems like a nice idea to make a social occasion of a meal and, since they are a friend, then I put myself out to do something I think they will like. I like to have friends give me genuine compliments on how nice the meal is/how much they can see I've taken their needs into account/etc.

However - there were/are people who do more "formal" type meals - eg having the boss around for dinner/holding formal social occasions/etc. Not something I've ever done - but I would have thought that even these occasions would have "caught up" by now with being a bit more considerate in what they serve.

Many years ago I picked up the idea (from a very different culture to ours) that it was an insult to the way I had "provided" a meal if a guest walked away from a meal I had given them still feeling hungry. Hence...I make sure I cater for guests requirements, so that they never walk away from my table still hungry (more like holding their stomachs and stating they couldn't possibly eat another mouthful LOL).

Corelli · 4 May 2015 at 8:57PM

I was born in the 50s and have had very little to do with formal eating. In the late 70s and during the 80s I had occasion to eat at formal management/union meetings with a meal provided and my veganism and other's vegetarian diets were always catered for. Going back earlier, my only awareness of this issue was my birthday parties. I grew up as an omnivore in an omniverous family, and one friend came from a vegetarian family which was unheard of there and then. My mother went to great lengths to make sure there would be food she could eat either at one of my parties, or if she came round to play.

I too doubt that anyone with a serious allergy would have ever been expected to eat what was put in front of them without them questioning it. Now I think back more, my parents had a diabetic friend and a coeliac friend, both of whom where very considerately catered for by my mother.

I like this notion from moneyistooshorttomention:

" Many years ago I picked up the idea (from a very different culture to ours) that it was an insult to the way I had "provided" a meal if a guest walked away from a meal I had given them still feeling hungry. Hence...I make sure I cater for guests requirements, so that they never walk away from my table still hungry (more like holding their stomachs and stating they couldn't possibly eat another mouthful LOL). "

nearlyrich · 4 May 2015 at 9:02PM

My brothers family were veggies I always made sure we offered none meat options if they came to ours most people would ask if the person coming to dinner had any dietary requirements wouldn't they?

CherryPie · 4 May 2015 at 10:12PM

I invited a friend I had known for over 20 years to dinner, asked her to let me know if there was anything she didn't like (she had no allergies I was aware of, only did it to be polite) She sent me a list of over 20 things she wouldn't eat!!

I however, went to her house for dinner one night and was served a delicious curry which I enjoyed and was most complimentary about. Only to discover shortly after finishing it that it had garlic in it, something which I have been allergic to ever since knowing her. I was told " there's only a small amount in it"

I only puked a small amount shortly thereafter!!!

thriftwizard · 4 May 2015 at 10:34PM

I think it's been commonplace since the 70s to enquire whether there's anything your guests can't or won't eat. But it's not always been accepted that some of these requirements are actually real; I have problems digesting cow's milk, and they were simply dismissed back in the '60s and I was often made to drink it, until either it returned the way it had gone down or I was sent home doubled up with stomach pains & wheezing. My niece is even more sensitive, but even in the mid-to-late 80s other parents (and also teachers) were dismissive of my sister-in-law's warnings ("It's just a fad!") and she ended up being rushed to hospital in ambulances on many occasions.

Hopefully people are more aware now... We are "host family" to young German students on a fairly regular basis, and are expected to cater appropriately for their dietary requirements; we're paid more for vegetarians (...? My veggie daughter costs pennies per week to feed!) and I always provide a real & appetising vegetarian alternative at every mealtime, but it's amazing how many kids will eat things away from home that their parents think they can't or won't!

I think it's part & parcel of being a good host, to find out what your guests need & like, and as a guest I always try to let my hosts know in advance that I'm no great fan of milk or milk puddings. It's just good manners & consideration, in both directions, and I suspect that the idea of putting up & shutting up was part & parcel of knowing your place, and knowing that it was lower than that of your hosts! I'm reminded of the curate's egg - "good in parts, your Grace!" - and hope that no-one ever has to eat a rotten egg again so as not to lose face...

moneyistooshorttomention · 5 May 2015 at 6:13AM

I thought it was started in the 1970s and by the 1980s it was commonplace to cater appropriately ThriftWizard.

I'm guessing that it hadn't been the norm previously to cater specifically because previously it was all many people could do to be able to eat at all - whether because of poverty or rationing - and it was the 1970s that saw the start of catering for specific requirements - partly because of a wider range of food starting to become available (eg the thought of catering for someone who was vegetarian and couldn't have milk would have been quite problematic for instance previously - but these days I'd just choose between the various types of milk alternatives and recently fed a friend a very nice icecream I had made from coconut milk).

Perhaps it helps also that its now possible to prepare a meal in very little time and yet its still healthy and not a great production of roast meat and vegetables for instance. We can eat in a more "meze" type way these days - eg my dinner yesterday was millet, hummus, roasted chickpeas and onions, a roasted pepper, olives, feta cheese (a type of meal that wouldn't have been available some years back). With that type of meal its much easier to say "Theres 10 different dishes here and you can eat 6 of them okay" for instance.

I hadn't thought of the "knowing your place" angle...but I guess that may have been part of it..

[Deleted User] · 5 May 2015 at 10:05AM

as a child growing up with rationing and food shortages we were never allowed to say we didn't like it or fancy it whatever 'it' was was eaten I remember eating tinned snoek which was some sort of south african fish I think and it was disgusting but eat it we did,with my Mum looming over us saying 'Good men died to bring that food to your plate ' She had a bit of a soft spot for the merchant seamen who sadly often did die bring food to britain.So although there were times when I really hated the food it really wasn't an option .I honestly can't think of much I wouldn't eat today although I did swear never to eat tripe again when I was grown up,another revolting dish that has the texture of cotton wool and probably tastes like it as well.Even with onions it wasn't nice to eat.I don't eat shellfish much as they don't agree with me,but then they were never on the menu when I was little so it wasn't a problem.My youngest DD can't abide fish in any form whatsoever and I never forced her to eat it when small as even fish fingers made her green,yet she loves to go sea-fishing when we are on holiday, and the rest of us eat what she catches.I certainly wouldn't force anyone to eat something they couldn't manage or disliked ,probably be the best way to lose friends.

moneyistooshorttomention · 5 May 2015 at 10:31AM

Which proves my point JackieO that things like rationing made it very difficult to cater for specific requirements (though I gather the ration was a bit different to cater for vegetarians - ie more cheese to make up for no meat).

I don't know what happened in that era re things like food intolerances? - eg ThriftWizard being unable to have milk (as it makes her ill). Maybe some people were ill from the foods they ate without realising what was causing the problem and we are more aware of this now??

I can remember the first gluten-free foods coming into supermarkets and it's only pretty recently that supermarkets have started stocking alternative "milks" (ie soya milk, rice milk, etc).

I seem to recall that tv series many of us watched recently re a family eating their way through the decades from 1950s to 1980s showed the 1980s as the era at which it became much more possible/expected that a family wouldn't necessarily all sit down to eat the same meal (if for the reason that many people were eating/still eat "convenience" meals - straight from freezer into microwave).

honeythewitch · 5 May 2015 at 10:52AM

CherryPie wrote: »

I invited a friend I had known for over 20 years to dinner, asked her to let me know if there was anything she didn't like (she had no allergies I was aware of, only did it to be polite) She sent me a list of over 20 things she wouldn't eat!!

I however, went to her house for dinner one night and was served a delicious curry which I enjoyed and was most complimentary about. Only to discover shortly after finishing it that it had garlic in it, something which I have been allergic to ever since knowing her. I was told " there's only a small amount in it"

I only puked a small amount shortly thereafter!!!

The exact same thing happened to me too, Cherrypie. I wonder if we have the same (ex) friend?

I remember being severely told off as a child when visiting a relative. She asked if I would like a sandwich and I asked what was in it!
Apart from the allergy, I will just suffer whatever a guest gives me, but there is usually a choice of dishes these days so we can help ourselves to what we want.

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