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  • FIRST POST
    nciaw36
    JSA Unfair sanction
    • #1
    • 6th Jun 13, 7:50 PM
    JSA Unfair sanction 6th Jun 13 at 7:50 PM
    Hi 1st post here. I have been signing on JSA for 1 month until I got sanctioned today which means no payment, no food nor buying materials/clothes to help for jobhunting. I have been applying and searching and interviews for work indicated by my jobseeking contract . The reason I have been given is not giving an updated CV to the jobcentre which basically is 1/2 lines changed from the one the Jobcentre already has. I wasn't even told this was the case from my last signing on. I am not happy with the decision of the adviser nor the attitude which including mentioning claiming benefit is unfair on taxpayers. Which is funny as I have paid way more tax than what I have claimed in benefit.

    I am not happy I have to appeal to the Jobcentre on a decision made by one of the advisers there. Which sounds like a kangaroo court. Is it possible to appeal to an independent body? or outside company. Thanks.
Page 1
    • CBU2004
    • By CBU2004 6th Jun 13, 8:00 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    CBU2004
    • #2
    • 6th Jun 13, 8:00 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Jun 13, 8:00 PM
    Has to be done through them.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/191806/GL24_042013_WEB.PDF

    You can choose to have a representative.
  • nciaw36
    • #3
    • 6th Jun 13, 8:18 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Jun 13, 8:18 PM
    Thanks for the reply. What worries me is it is my advisors word against me in their own backyard. Even if my appeal wins I am looking at the next 4 weeks of no money and I am already under pressure with rent,bills etc. I am unemployed through no fault of my own, looking for work and getting punished. What was the point of me paying National Insurance???
    • Elzmumof3
    • By Elzmumof3 6th Jun 13, 9:38 PM
    • 361 Posts
    • 2,916 Thanks
    Elzmumof3
    • #4
    • 6th Jun 13, 9:38 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Jun 13, 9:38 PM
    Thanks for the reply. What worries me is it is my advisors word against me in their own backyard. Even if my appeal wins I am looking at the next 4 weeks of no money and I am already under pressure with rent,bills etc. I am unemployed through no fault of my own, looking for work and getting punished. What was the point of me paying National Insurance???
    Originally posted by nciaw36

    its not about what you have paid in.. its about doing as the DWP ask according to the Jobseekers agreement you signed when you 1st started claiming - stick to that and you shouldnt get sanctioned!

    In the meantime, you can apply for a hardship payment while your sanction carries on.
    January Wins - Gangster Squad Goodies, Sun Lotion
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    • CBU2004
    • By CBU2004 6th Jun 13, 9:40 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 75 Thanks
    CBU2004
    • #5
    • 6th Jun 13, 9:40 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Jun 13, 9:40 PM
    Thanks for the reply. What worries me is it is my advisors word against me in their own backyard. Even if my appeal wins I am looking at the next 4 weeks of no money and I am already under pressure with rent,bills etc. I am unemployed through no fault of my own, looking for work and getting punished. What was the point of me paying National Insurance???
    Originally posted by nciaw36
    Yea my partner is in a similar situation, a 4 week sanction through their fault ! It seems lengthy and tiring but just keep at it and it should get sorted, I had a deduction before but appealed and got it back.

    So chin up and I would advise visiting CAB
  • nciaw36
    • #6
    • 6th Jun 13, 10:45 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Jun 13, 10:45 PM
    I have kept to the JSA agreement. I wasn't asked to bring an updated CV it was only updated with an added 1/2 lines in the 'about me' bit. I have signed on time, been to interviews applied for work. It seems ridiuclous to have a sanction just on the say so of 1 person especially as my advisor was short tempered at end of day. Now I have to take my chances with an appeal and leaving me broke till then. We know the JSA staff are under pressure to increase sanctioning and it looks like they will lie and mislead to achieve it. I tell you one thing if the appeal goes against me the next stage will be contacting my MP I have plenty of evidence to prove I am actively seeking work. I don't want to live on 142 fortnight for too long.
  • nciaw36
    • #7
    • 6th Jun 13, 10:47 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Jun 13, 10:47 PM
    Thanks for the info and replies.
  • busy mom
    • #8
    • 7th Jun 13, 3:28 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Jun 13, 3:28 PM
    Ring JCP and ask for a call from DMAwith a detailed explaination as to why you have been sanctioned. You can then appeal. It would help if we knew exactly what reason, was it a jobseeker direction to update and provide the C.V.? if so you should have a copy. Once you know the grounds for the sanction please repost.
    Apply for hardship if you have no other income in the mean time.
    • john539
    • By john539 7th Jun 13, 11:30 PM
    • 15,351 Posts
    • 10,296 Thanks
    john539
    • #9
    • 7th Jun 13, 11:30 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Jun 13, 11:30 PM
    It's not good & not fair that jobseekers are being sanctioned for things which were not clear & they didn't know about.

    It discredits Jobcentres & their staff.
    • missapril75
    • By missapril75 8th Jun 13, 12:44 AM
    • 1,601 Posts
    • 1,705 Thanks
    missapril75
    It's not good & not fair that jobseekers are being sanctioned for things which were not clear & they didn't know about.

    It discredits Jobcentres & their staff.
    Originally posted by john539
    Yes it does.

    However, in the very first post the OP states the reason given.

    We can disagree with the fairness of it but that's really not the same as claiming something was unclear and unknown.

    Regarding "I wasn't even told this was the case from my last signing on..." what was there to tell?
    At that stage there was no decision. If the job seeker shows conditions met for that period, the fact of signing will be input. There aren't any alarm bells or flashing lights to indicate the possibility of a forthcoming sanction.

    I am not happy with <snip>the attitude which including mentioning claiming benefit is unfair on taxpayers.
    Now that is an issue to complain about. Providing it wasn't something other than the official position of having a responsibility for public funds as well as processing claims.

    Why do JSA staff come in for so much stick in cases like this? When the bank clerk asks for evidence of ID before handing over "your" money, why do "you" not get indignant that the nasty bank employee didn't believe you were who you said you were?

    How about that fussy security guard that wanted to look in your handbag? He should have known the only things in it were your purse, a lipstick and library card.

    How dare that immigration officer examine your passport that closely...Oh, wait, that does happen doesn't it. Bloody interfering civil servants!!

    Don't get me started on "the taxman."
  • ArtoDeeto
    Were you given a direction to produce a CV by a certain date?
    You can ask for a redicision, then appeal and then take it further. But what was the Sanction reason? - is it that you were directed to produce the revised CV by xyz date?; if so why didn't you??? You can't just be sanctioned on a whim.
  • osdset
    In many cases sanctions are totally disproportionate to the 'offence', so failing to update a CV warrants a four week period of financial depravation?

    I don't think so.

    Sanctions are just another means of welfare reform, a money saving exercise, they do nothing to stimulate a claimant into finding that ever increasingly elusive job. In fact they are counter productive because they remove the ability for the claimant to pay for travel etc.

    It's the governments equivalent of getting a severe beating for swearing in class. This government has no strategy in place for dealing with unemployment, the work programme has been a complete failure with droves of 'customers' returning to JCP after their two year stint. These 'customers' will face six months of harsh treatment at the hands of JCP's new 'hit squad' effectively being punished for the failure of the work programme. Interestingly the WP providers have emerged blameless for their inability to do anything apart from hold their grubby hands out for payment.

    There are around half a million vacancies in the UK. According to the governments own hugely fiddled figures there are 2.52 million currently unemployed. So if every single vacancy was filled tomorrow there would still be millions looking for jobs that don't exist, how then can sanctions be justified if the jobs simply aren't there?
    Last edited by osdset; 08-06-2013 at 7:27 AM.
  • manzanilla
    Even if my appeal wins I am looking at the next 4 weeks of no money and I am already under pressure with rent,bills etc.
    I agree with the other comments about appeal the decision.

    In the meanwhile, if you are claiming Housing benefit to help with the rent (which you should be unless you are with a partner who is well paid?) you may find they stop your Housing Benefit. This is because the Job Centre will have told your local authority that you are no longer getting JSA, the LA will assume that you have a job which you haven't told them about and so stop your HB.

    You are still entitled to HB even if you are not getting JSA. If it is stopped, take copies of your bank statements (to prove you don't have a job) into the local office and explain.
    manzanilla
    • sammyjammy
    • By sammyjammy 8th Jun 13, 8:35 AM
    • 4,115 Posts
    • 4,459 Thanks
    sammyjammy
    I personally think the problem with these sanctions are they are being aimed at the wrong people. The people that are not searching for work are the long long term unemployed, too good at playing the game, its virtually impossible to challenge them (I'm obviously generalising but we all know the type).

    Staff on the frontline in the Jobcentre are poorly trained, if at all in some cases and therefore the people that cop it are the newly unemployed doing what they can to find work and not fully realising the implications of not doing something (for what is probably a valid reason).

    My biggest problem is that people don't seem to be being told that the doubt has arisen at the time and are having to be told this by benefit staff when they ring to find out why their money hasn't arrived. This is so wrong and is probably related to the lack of training in dealing with difficult situations. In my day we were required to inform a claimant of a doubt on their claim whilst they sat in front of you but then things were very different in my Jobcentre days 15 years ago.
    Last edited by sammyjammy; 08-06-2013 at 8:36 AM. Reason: sp
    "You've been reading SOS when it's just your clock reading 5:05 "
    • montyrebel
    • By montyrebel 8th Jun 13, 9:45 AM
    • 523 Posts
    • 421 Thanks
    montyrebel
    I recently had to make a rapid reclaim and fill in all the forms again to apply as I am on a minimum contract job and for a week i got over the 16 hours so had to sign off then on again when it came back under that.

    on the form it has a question that says, Do you have a CV?

    what did you tick in that box OP when you applied?
    mortui non mordent
  • nciaw36
    Thanks for replies and help here. I had my 1st signing on 2 weeks ago came with cv which I went through with adviser. He was happy with the CV mentioned add a little more info in the 'About Me' I was on the understanding it was more advice than got to do that. I was under no instruction to bring another CV as the one he has seen is in the system. Also another CV which I did a month ago which is in the 'Universal Jobmatch' system (CV Maker). I have kept to my agreement with proof of job applications, interviews and dates/times. They is definitely an agenda here when it comes to benefits in the UK I have read and researched online that JSA advisers are told to hit a target of 5 sanctions a week. Which was stopped then reinstated few months ago.

    My claim was not a rapid reclaim as haven't signed for years I did tick a CV box which is what they have on paper/file. I will appeal and put every detail of what happened. Only thing shame didn't record my meeting audio on phone which I would strongly advice if you can to have proof when appealing as it is my word against theirs.
  • nciaw36
    Another point I can ask for a hardship payment which is roughly half of JSA which has to be paid back through JSA/Employment. But again takes time and a personal meeting with a decision maker.
  • osdset
    Posted today on another forum.

    I was unable to attend a scheduled appointment at Ingeus on the Work Programme due to sickness (specifically the Norovirus; vomiting, high fever, physical weakness and generally incapacitated). I called my advisor on the morning when I was ill and explained the situation, and he sent me another appointment letter out for another time.

    A week after I got a notice from the JCP about a doubt against my claim due to missing an appointment. I filled in all the informatoin they requested, such as what I did, why I couldn't attend and so forth. Today I received a letter saying that my JSA will be stopped for 4 weeks because "you did not have sufficiently good reasons" for not attending.

    I literally couldn't even get out of bed. I did everything I could do with regards to informing my advisor and explaining. I can't ring them as it's Saturday and I'm a little worried of what to do and if I can appeal again this? I'm not even sure what "sufficiently good reasons" means, tried searching Google for a list but nothing comes up. Any advice would be appreciated.
    Ok, so this is the provider initially raising a doubt because they are obliged to but it's been upheld by a DM at JCP why? The claimant was issued another appointment, and had valid reasons for missing the first one.
    There is absolutely no justification for withholding four weeks benefit from this person, and it's yet another example of sanctions being applied unjustly.
  • krok
    Ring JCP and ask for a call from DMAwith a detailed explaination as to why you have been sanctioned. You can then appeal. It would help if we knew exactly what reason, was it a jobseeker direction to update and provide the C.V.? if so you should have a copy. Once you know the grounds for the sanction please repost.
    Apply for hardship if you have no other income in the mean time.
    Originally posted by busy mom
    Good answer from Busy mom. I would do as she advises.
  • nciaw36
    Will do. Thanks.
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