Holiday Property Bond
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I know that there have been changes made to HPB over the years (which I don't necessarily keep up with) but I do not pay anything in terms of an annual fee. In fact I pay nothing at all except for the user charge whenever I actually stay in a property. Perhaps this arrangement is no longer available to new bondholders. I am also able to book any of the properties, of varying occupancy if I have enough points, at any location, at any time of the year without paying any fees or charges as you would pay when wanting to "exchange" or swap a timeshare.
Any up front fee charged by HPB when selling a bond must by law be clearly and explicitly stated on the quotation as it is now a regulated product.
You claim that many users do not agree about the HPB quality being high but I have personally NEVER heard any bondholder staying at ANY HPB property say this about the quality of the accommodation. Whatever criticisms you may have I really do not think that this particular one has any significant validity. Where on earth are you getting this from ? Not only have I NEVER personally heard this as a complaint from a bondholder, I have never read it in any of the user handbooks which are left in every property for occupants to make comments in and for them to pass on advice to future occupants. Most comments are precisely the opposite with many verbal recommendations for other sites being made between resident bondholders. I ask again - where are you getting this information from because it is very different from my own personal experiences ?
There will no doubt be some relatively isolated incidents but that is all that they are in my personal experience.
Generally speaking, there are no "deals" in the way that you appear to think with HPB. There is a pre-set user charge for each property and a number of points required for that particular week at that particular property. All members are sent full printed details of next years user charges annually for every property. I can understand why the user charges are a part of the booking system on the website but I'm also sure that they are not kept secret so any implications you are seeking to make based on that are unfounded. I had full details of all user charges before making any "initial investment" into my HPB and I would be very surprised (make that astonished) if any bondholder had any different experience on that score.
I offered to obtain a current user charge for you if you would specify an occupancy level and location (or several if you prefer).
I receive this sites emails because just like many people I'm interested in finding good deals and saving money. I'm sure that many HPB bondholders are also subscribers for the same reason. I do not believe however that ONLY the deals mentioned on here are worth having. I also think that subscribers are best served by hearing the facts from people who are in possession of them and very clearly some of the earlier postings in this thread were based on nothing more than assumptions and total ignorance of the real workings of the HPB.
HPB isn't perfect but it is very much better than some posters on here would have you believe. Some will decide that it is well worth the money and others will decide that it isn't. None of them are assisted in their decisions by reading nonsense about any particular product.0 -
I have a couple of friends who are bond holders and they have said the holdaiys they have had have been great, both here and in Europe. You do need to have a relatively sizeable points balance to access the "higher end" properties it seems though
I "get" the product and if I had enough spare cash would be tempted i think as it seems a good way of guaranteeing buying your family a lifetime of holiday desitinations which are high end at reasonable prices.
I also get why other don't "get" the product, and why they are maybe happier booking their own holidays package or otherwise for possibly less money but that is why we are all different and want different things.
The bit I don't agree with is that this is simply another scam timeshare, although I would be happier if they didn't call it an investment as others have said, even though you will get something back if you choose to cash in0 -
Gawd!
Why are we Bondholders so blinkin' coy about money? We don't have to defend it - we invested/ bought (whatever!), we're happy!
I originally (in '89 ish) invested about £5500 (can't remember exactly!) and have 'topped up' by about £3000 since (in 2 separate lots) - so £8500 total. If I cashed it in today I'd get 69.5p per £ invested. So it's 'cost' me 30p x 8500 = £2550 for near 20 years of holidays PLUS the user charges (& getting to & fro if abroad, any distance).
When I invested I got 5500 points for the first year - but this has been index linked & so my total £8500 investment is now giving me 13552 points pa to 'spend'.
Looking at HPB site today for a 'typical' holiday.....mid October next year for a week in Lanzarote, one bed apt - 5240 points & a User Charge of £316. Bit steep! In 2010 summer school hols the points are 5420 & the user charge the same - far better value coz everything costs more in school hols. That sleeps 3. PLUS flights etc. Probably not the best example to choose - but gives you an idea.
Best 'comparison' I ever did was 2 weeks at Rocha Brava in the Algarve (a Trafalgar House build near Carvoeiro) - Summer school hols I had 4 adults & 2 kids in a 2 bed villa with 2 cars & cheap flights & a virtually private pool - total cost £1400 (inc user charge) - Mundi Color had a virtually identical villa on the same site up at £1400 EACH - plus under occupancy if less than 6 adults!
More examples? A 4 bed villa in Almeria - £750pw; a 2 bed cottage in the Peak District - £316pw. The User charge is the same all year - it's the 'points' that vary.
I love HPB because the accomodation quality is lovely - decent cotton sheets, loads of fluffy white towels, decent knives, a Food processor plus decent & appropriate facilities (Pool sauna etc) plus DVD & book libraries plus internet access..................you get the idea. And that's ALL covered in the charge I pay.
It's been a godsend to us when OH hasn't been in work & we've been gagging for a break - & for a couple hundred £ we've had a week of comfort & warmth in a HPB property quite near home. Lovely!
Just ask if you wanna know more!
A
xx
PS - If you're REALLY interested (!!!!) HPB hold frequent 'open houses' at most of their UK properties (& occassionally abroad!) - you could always go visit! We don't bite!:rotfl:
PPS - AND (lol!) my DS is looking forward to inheriting it! But the main reason for this PPS - and this may've changed - NO HASSLE! We got info on it 2 years before we were in a position to invest, had ONE phone call checking we'd got the info, where we said we couldn't invest yet, and the guy said 'That's OK - just call when you're ready'. And that was it - nothing ever again until we invested, and nothing since! Now that alone is worth it's weight in gold to me - I HATE being harrassed!:mad: :j:D:beer::eek::A:p:rotfl::cool::):(:T0 -
Glad to see some more realistic discussion about the bond.
Terryw - the web site might not let you see the prices of each and every property -but if you were seriously interested and attended an open day at any of the bond properties, you would be given full details and allowed to see all the points and user prices for all properties. As jfdi says the "value" varies depending on when you take the holidays as the user charge for a week stays the same. So it is nonsense to suggest that they are not letting anyone see what the costs are before they invest - you simply have to be interested enough to enquire and ask for more details.
As far as similarities to time-share are concerned - well if you "invest" in a new car, you won't get back your investment, even if you sell it immdeiately, some car buyers aren't satisfied with their purchase and it will cost you (road fund licence and insurance) even if you never use it -but it doesn't make buying a car analogous to time-share.
In any event - look at the web site and you will see the following (remembering it is FSA regulated): -
Over 40% or our new investors are introduced by existing Bondholders. And, in a recent survey, 97% of respondents took time to express their satisfaction with their decision to invest in the Bond. Consequently, we feel confident offering this unprecedented guarantee:
Take your first holiday at a Bond-owned site anytime within three years of investing and, in the unlikely event that you are not 100% delighted, you may cash-in your Bond within 14 days of your return. You will receive the Bond's then unit value (which may have gone up or down) plus a refund of all your initial charges
This contradicts your points about an immediate loss and about unhappy bondholders (sure there will be a number -but name me a product where this does not happen. A 97% satisfaction rating is unusual wouldn't you say?How many time-shares make the offer above?
We put in £6k in 1992 and current value is £4200 - so a "loss" of £1800. Over that period though we have had 21 holidays with the bond both in UK and abroad.
Latest was at Duloe Manor near Looe in Cornwall this summer. £309 user charge for a 2 bedroom, two bathroom property in high summer period. Amenities on site include a leisure centre with outdoor and indoor pools, solarium, steam room, sauna and gym, a separate centre with full size billiards table, pool table, table tennis, kids area and a large free DVD and video library. All for around 35 properties, so no overcrowding. Organised for us, if we wanted it, was an all in dinner, including taxis to a high quality restaurant in Polperro and an option organised tours with guide around Eden and Lost gardens of Heligan. It is these extra touches that make the bond attractive to many people and despite Terryw suggestions, means there are very few dissatisfied bondholders.
If you want a comparison, there was a TV programme recently about a couple investing and doing up an old railway station in Devon. No amenities on site, but the rent being asked for high summer for two bedroom cottages was £950 pw. The decor etc. looked to be similar to bond standard.
We also had a short break organised earlier in the year, but had to cancel a week before going due to illness. The property was put on the web immediately and re-let the next day -we got all of the user charge credited without hesitation.
Fact is, as I said earlier, if you are considering the bond, go to an open day and ask all the awkward questions - you will get honest answers and then you decide whether the bond is for you or is not. If it is not, no-one hassles you adn if you do, then generally you don't regret it. This seems a good deal to me,and nearly all of the fellow bond holders.0 -
I have read the previous posts with interest and agree that all the positive posts from Newbie MSE''s are suspicious. I have thought about these bonds for some time as my best friend and his wife have been bond holders for several years and think they are wonderful. I have visited the HPB website using with their permission their login details and found that there are numerous properties both here and abroad available over the next year.
I have received the information pack today and my wife and I are going to visit one of their properties in the next few weeks or so to decide if we want to invest or not. At this stage, I am not saying where or when for obvious reasons.
I shall provide details of our visit and our decision in due course.
My wife and I have attended the Open Day at Blore Hall Derbyshire. The properties were very well furnished and clean, apart from a large spider in the shower of a bathroom that had just been cleaned! We decided not to invest, as the amount that we would have to invest to secure a confirmed booking in the UK would be in the region of £10,000. The main thing that put us off was the shortage of UK properties in the Late Booking Section for which there is no point deduction. According to the man we saw, this is not unusual as most of the UK properties are snapped up well in advance due to the short journeys (obviously), to get there.
We can always use friends account to secure a Tennancy Booking, for which no points are deducted, just the price paid for a very good Self catering holiday.To Dare is To Do:beer:0 -
fred_karno wrote: »
We put in £6k in 1992 and current value is £4200 - so a "loss" of £1800. Over that period though we have had 21 holidays with the bond both in UK and abroad.
Of course £6K invested at a mere 6% back in 1992 would now be £16150
so the bond is actually worth 25% of its potential real value.This isnt so bad as quite rightly, you have had 17 years worth of happy holidays out it,which may have cost you so much more.
Its just not an "investment" in raw £s +pence IMO
HPB really isn't so different from "timeshare", its just packaged differently.
BTW I love timeshare. I am an "owner" myself. and love the better quality accom, the 2wks for 1, the bonus weeks etc available to members of the various exchange companies
I consider HPB, timeshare and even legit holiday clubs like Club La Costa and Royal Resorts (AU) absolute value for money, as long as the benefits exceed the outlay and ongoing charges.
In the case of timeshare and holiday clubs, to obtain maximum value of your "investment" this would mean buying "resale" where often you can buy from motivated sellers for 10p in the £ from original brand new cost0 -
I've been a bondholder since 1987 when i was 33 and entered it with some trepidation as it was a fairly new scheme, so I only put a fairly small amount in. I've added bits over the years, but still have less than £6k invested, which does restrict my holiday choices a bit, but we generally have a nice two week holiday every two years and possibly a one week off season somewhere with low points in the other year.
What do I think of the HPB after 23 years membership? In one word...Excellent. It has exceeded my expectations by a considerable margin and I can honestly say we have never been disappointed. My kids have grown up with it and love it as well.
Don't think of it as a cheap holiday though. The initial charge is steep, you have travel costs and you have a user charge. What you can guarantee though is consistently good quality accommodation in some truly imaginative and wonderful locations and buildings, no nasty surprises, and staff who go the extra mile to help when you do have problems.
There have been changes in the admin and finance arrangements of the HPB over the years, some of which I grumbled about, but in retrospect they were all wise changes aimed at consolidating the financial security of the HPB in changing financial climates.
Quie frankly some of the criticisms or implied comments on this board about HPB are risible and ridiculous. I've no connection whatsoever with HPB other than being a bondholder for a long time. Nobody asked me to comment on here, I just couldn't resist after reading some of the more outrageous criticisms of HPB written by people who so obviously have no idea what they are talking about.
Its not for everybody, if it was then I'd probably leave. Some people have unrealistic expectations as well.
My advice. Get the brochures, spend lots of time reading the small print, ask questions, and make arrangements to visit one or two sites before you buy. Is it an investment?...well probably not in any sense of making money, but if you believe having holidays in lovely places with complete peace of mind is an investment in yourself and family...then maybe it is.
No doubt the sage of Newcastle will be along to say I'm being paid by HPB or something.....I wish. Mind you he is obviously an expert in HPB..but all I've seen from his comments shows he really know very little about HPB...in fact very little is being overgenerous. Some of his comments are way out of line IMHO.
P.S. Not many will be aware that HPB loosely followed the model of another successful operation from Switzerland call Hapimag founded in 1963. I knew people who worked abroad and used Hapimag for years before HPB came along, but it was geared to continentals more than Brits. Its still going strong. Google it if you are interested in finding out more. As a newbie on here it wont let me post the link.
Seronera0 -
It's clearly several years since this thread was started, but I picked it up from google while looking for some local information around a new HPB site in Spain. No, I don 't work for HPB (I would be amazed if there was one single post on here from such a being! They don't do things like that) but I have been a member of MSE for several years, although I haven't posted in about 3 years. Presumably the person who originally asked the question has long ago made up their mind one way or another, but there may be others who happen upon this thread and are looking for answers.
We've been HP bondholders for upwards of 5 years, and consider it an excellent decision. We had retired with pension lump sums and some other cash which we thought we could put to good use in ensuring our future holidays were in the kind of accommodation we always dreamed our holiday rentals would be, but seldom were! It works - the apartments are fantastic, the locations wonderfully chosen and developed, the online booking system is good and the staff in headquarters and on site are pleasant and helpful. Yes, we do have to book early if we want a particular apartment and location, but we've also had some great points-free holidays as have some of our children and their families. The other kind of holiday we like is cruising and if we want a particular cabin on a particular cruise then we have booked 18 months in advance on more than one occasion, so it isn't a strange or unusual phenomenon.
We took friends with us on one of the holidays and they were amazed at the standard of the apartments, the quality of the maintenance of them, the on-site restaurant, pools, gardens etc. But they thought it was a bit posh for them, and they found it a bit odd that everyone was British (we were in Majorca). So if that kind of thing matters to you then it's not for you. We have recently had a week in St. Bride's Castle in Pembrokeshire - how else could one stay in a superb location like that for about £300 for a week?
No, it's not a lucrative financial investment but no-one in their right mind would go into it looking for that. It's an 'investment' in a lifetime of lovely holidays in very good company. I'm just going on to the site to browse for our next holiday, and perhaps see if there's any chance as well of a 'points-free' somewhere warm in the next couple of months. If I use my airmiles for the flights it will be a very cheap luxurious break.:)0 -
I invested in the bond some 6 years ago when i got married and my wife was pregnant.
it was recommended to me by a former boss who had been a member for some time.
We initially invested £11,000 and have since then topped up by a further £3,000.
My borther is also a member of the bond.
I have two kids now and a wife who is a school teacher so we are limited to holidaying peak periods. Provided you decide where you want to go in advance you are fine. We tend to book up about a year ahead and if for some reason i can't get the time off then i'm pretty sure that we can cancel up to 6 months ahead without losing out. even if you cancel a month before, then provided the property is relet i'm sure you get your points back. Never had to find out.
For us it guarantees us great holidays at wonderful prices. Of course you can't comapre it to a couple who book last minute deals but we're not that type of couple. we have two small kids and like to know the quality we will be getting and the certainty f the hlliday in advance.
We have only ever used UK properties (because of the kids ages) but next year we are off to Madeira with my brother and his family in 4 bed Villa. Really looking forward to it.
Ye, its quite an initial outlay, and I personally don't see it other than as an investment in top quality holidays as opposed to nay other kind of investment. I would probably say it is a long term commmitment (20 years plus) but its noce to know that you have the option of getting something back if you had to. We personally intend to use this until we croak.
The properties are all extremely good quality. Sometimes you may find someone unhappy with something or other, for example this year we went to Barnham Broom in Norfolk and the second bedroom was very small.
We didn't actually have to use it but I can understand why someone previosuly took issue with its size.
As for the charges:
You pay about £100 per year admin fee (unless your an older bondholder - by which i mean older in length of membership - an have decided to stay as you were. New members have tp pay this fee.
That said i paid about 350 for a week in high season in extremely good quality accomodation for my family of 4 including free use of the hotel's swimming pool, steam room, sauna, tennis courts. Not sure what i would have had to pay for that same thing if i wasn't in the bond. Probably closer to the £1,000 mark I expect. Please don't go on about getting last minute deals cheaper. As I have explained i don't do that because i like the certainty of knowing where we are going in advance.
The user charge is non profit based and as someone else has said you'll pay more for a 4 bed apartment in August than you will for a 1 bed apartment or studio apartment in November (as you would expect)
it isn't for everyone and i would imaging that if i were single i wouldn't have joined. Its been great value for us as we are stuck to holidaying in peak times and i will keep hold of my bond for as long as i can.
You are holidaying with like minded people who are on the whole very polite and even children are well behaved.
As a parent my only gripe would be the lack of general family entertainment that you could take your children to in the evening. However that of course would add to the cost so its swings and roundabouts really. As the kids get older i wonder if the bond is enough for them but we'll just have to find that out.
The bond is evolving though. In a number of places during peak times they now offer certain clubs (mainly sporting) for children to go to and meet other children. i can see this being extedned over the coming years.
All in all very happy with my holiday "investment" and woudn't hesitate to extoll its virtues. As mentioned, its not for everyone and you have to decide whether you will get what you expect out of it. so far we have.0 -
I worked for HPB for 15 years, I have not worked for them for 3 years now.
The simple facts are as follows
1) Half of all the people I sold to new friends that had been members for years.
2) Over half of all the members put more money in after they have used the system for a while.
3) 70% of the sales force owned holiday property bonds.
I am a newbie and may not post again, as I may not find anything else I am passionate about.0
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