Advise Please Legal Action Over Trade-in
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I wonder if someone here could help me, I brought my wife a 2001 BMW Mini with 78,000 on the clock, last year from a 'friend of a friend' (whom I can not find since) I got it cheap as it needed bodywork, Tax & Mot, I did all of these and my wife used the car for 8 months.
My Mum informed me she that was going to buy a new Kia from a dealer and was going to trade in her 2006 Mini in 4 months time, so I asked my Mum to trade in my wifes Mini & we would have hers, which she agreed.
We sorn'd the 2001 Mini as the tax was due but re-mot'd it so once my Mum traded it in we just have to tax it to drive it (as by that time the 1st mot would have run out)
My Mum brought a new Kia from a dealer who gave her £2000 trade in for the 2001 Mini, Kia didn't even what to see the Mini only a printed photo my mum took to the dealer. The deal was then and Kia delivered her new vehicle to her house and took the 2001 Mini, which was the 1st time they had seen it.
Around 6 weeks later the salesman from Kia called to ask if my mum knew of any mileage problem with the Mini, which we did not, he said it doesn't matter and asked now the new Kia was.
A week later the salesmans manager called to say the Mini clock shows 80,000 but they have sold it on to another garage who say the mileage has been changed at some point and it's really 120,000, the manager said it was illegal and the other garage are threatening legal action but if my mum pays £700 that will be the end of it, my mum said she would need to speak to her husband and call back.
The kia manager called back the next day to ask why they haven't called back to arrange payment, My mum informed him that we have done nothing wrong and don't wish to pay the £700, The manager said he knows we haven't clocked the Mini but they have given too much money for it as a trade in so need £700 back from my mum. My mum asked how they would know the mileage is wrong and the manager said it would be on the mot (new mot's show the last 4 mileages) my mum said we have never checked that but the Salesman who delivered the new Kia checked the Mini mot in front of her before signing it off as part of his checks.
Today my mum got a letter from lawgistics saying after further investigation it has been found that my mum changed the mileage or knew about it and traded it in illegally!!!!!
I really don't know what to do, we don't want to spend hundreds on a solicitor, We had no idea the mileage was wrong, surly it was done to Kia to check all of this before agreeing the trade in?
Also before Kia had first called we saw the Mini online for sale with a new MOT and HPI clear, around 2 weeks after the trade in.
Can anyone please help or point me in the right direction?
My Mum informed me she that was going to buy a new Kia from a dealer and was going to trade in her 2006 Mini in 4 months time, so I asked my Mum to trade in my wifes Mini & we would have hers, which she agreed.
We sorn'd the 2001 Mini as the tax was due but re-mot'd it so once my Mum traded it in we just have to tax it to drive it (as by that time the 1st mot would have run out)
My Mum brought a new Kia from a dealer who gave her £2000 trade in for the 2001 Mini, Kia didn't even what to see the Mini only a printed photo my mum took to the dealer. The deal was then and Kia delivered her new vehicle to her house and took the 2001 Mini, which was the 1st time they had seen it.
Around 6 weeks later the salesman from Kia called to ask if my mum knew of any mileage problem with the Mini, which we did not, he said it doesn't matter and asked now the new Kia was.
A week later the salesmans manager called to say the Mini clock shows 80,000 but they have sold it on to another garage who say the mileage has been changed at some point and it's really 120,000, the manager said it was illegal and the other garage are threatening legal action but if my mum pays £700 that will be the end of it, my mum said she would need to speak to her husband and call back.
The kia manager called back the next day to ask why they haven't called back to arrange payment, My mum informed him that we have done nothing wrong and don't wish to pay the £700, The manager said he knows we haven't clocked the Mini but they have given too much money for it as a trade in so need £700 back from my mum. My mum asked how they would know the mileage is wrong and the manager said it would be on the mot (new mot's show the last 4 mileages) my mum said we have never checked that but the Salesman who delivered the new Kia checked the Mini mot in front of her before signing it off as part of his checks.
Today my mum got a letter from lawgistics saying after further investigation it has been found that my mum changed the mileage or knew about it and traded it in illegally!!!!!
I really don't know what to do, we don't want to spend hundreds on a solicitor, We had no idea the mileage was wrong, surly it was done to Kia to check all of this before agreeing the trade in?
Also before Kia had first called we saw the Mini online for sale with a new MOT and HPI clear, around 2 weeks after the trade in.
Can anyone please help or point me in the right direction?
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Comments
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Most of the clocked cars on the road are done by private people, like your friends friend0
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The trade in value would be based on the information provided. If that information provided turned out to be wrong then inevitably there is an issue.
You would need to read the contract that she signed in full to see what the rights etc are but you'd expect, given its the garages contract, that it does give them the right to recover the difference should a false declaration have been made. Even if it doesnt then its almost certainly a breach of contract in which case common law allows for indemnification against the breach.
In turn those rights would pass up the chain of contracts though if you want to bother pursuing your mates mate is another matter.
They can only ask for indemnification though so you are entitled to check the value they are claiming back is reasonable. I've no idea what the legalities on a clocked vehicle is and how it can be returned to the right side of the law.0 -
thank you for the reply although its made me worry more,
I was under the impression that as Kia didn't even look at the Mini before agreeing the trade-in value that would help us, the Mini could have been in really bad condition (it wasn't) so not worth £2000, they wouldn't have know because they didn't bother looking at it-only a photo.0 -
thank you for the reply although its made me worry more,
I was under the impression that as Kia didn't even look at the Mini before agreeing the trade-in value that would help us, the Mini could have been in really bad condition (it wasn't) so not worth £2000, they wouldn't have know because they didn't bother looking at it-only a photo.
The dealer is the "expert".
Its up to him to do any due diligence on the car BEFORE he accepts the car as a trade in.
It would very much go against him that he didnt even bother to look at it at the time.
Also, hes sold the car on to another trader, so there is no legal obligation on HIM as a dealer to refund or partial refund the other trader.
Nothing to do with you.
Tell him to jog on.
If they want to take you to court i would say it would be laughed back out of it again.
Check with your solicitor but not your problem.0 -
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InsideInsurance wrote: »Really? What qualifications do you need to be a car dealer? As far as I was aware as long as you had the money, insurance and informed the tax man etc then anyone could be a car dealer
Hence the double quotes.
In law they are "the expert". Its up to them to know.0 -
Under sale of goods act, a private individual is given more "protection" and is assumed to know less than a business/ trader.
My plan of action here is that given there was no obvious intention to deceive/ deliberate misrepresentations and that given the dealer could have done a HPI check at little cost, then surely "caveat emptor" applies, unless they can establish the mileage discrepancies apply within the period of ownership by the OP.
As far as getting tooled up with a lawyer is concerned, does your mum have any "legal protection insurance" on her home & contents insurance policy? if so, a call to them would see a lawyer appointed to advise and take further steps, if necessary.0 -
Legal Expenses on home insurance typically only appoint solicitors to work on the claimant side and not normally on defense. The pure advice element of the policy does tend to be universal.0
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OnanTheBarbarian wrote: »Under sale of goods act, a private individual is given more "protection" and is assumed to know less than a business/ trader.
My plan of action here is that given there was no obvious intention to deceive/ deliberate misrepresentations and that given the dealer could have done a HPI check at little cost, then surely "caveat emptor" applies, unless they can establish the mileage discrepancies apply within the period of ownership by the OP.
As far as getting tooled up with a lawyer is concerned, does your mum have any "legal protection insurance" on her home & contents insurance policy? if so, a call to them would see a lawyer appointed to advise and take further steps, if necessary.
I called her and she's going to check if she has any cover, Before the letter I wasn't too worried about it as I (we) haven't done anything wrong so they won't be able to prove we have plus as a main dealer I felt they should have done all the checks (but probably didn't) before they collected the Mini0 -
I spoke to someone at my work and he feels they are 'trying it on' with the letter and trying to scare us.0
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