Hospital Civil Enforcement Ltd PCN

mje1980 · 23 April 2017 at 8:03PM

Sorry I know there are mistakes, I'm blaming the fact I've had to use my phone this weekend to do this! Final email will be checked and double checked!

Thanks for those tips, think I'm good to tidy up and fire it off.

And I honestly left it as 'fine' on this email on purpose, not in error! Read many a correction already on that in this forum, but to most people it doesn't sound incorrect and that's what it feels like! It sounds worse I think.

Thanks everyone.

I will return with any reply I receive!

mje1980 · 24 April 2017 at 3:13PM

Hello everyone.

Sent off my email to PALS and some some Trust email addresses, got the below reply within half an hour.

Basically attempting to fob me off to Civil Enforcement Ltd.

I am sorry to hear of the problems you encountered when parking at Fairfield General hospital recently. As Civil Enforcement Ltd hold all of the information relating to each charge notice issued, including photographs, they are best placed to deal with any appeals or further queries and they undertake this on our behalf. To appeal a parking charge notice you need to either email or write to them, rather than the Trust in the first instance. Please find further information attached on making appeal and payments as appropriate for reference. This information is also available on our website, http://www.pat.nhs.uk/getting-here/car-parking.htm. We selected Civil Enforcement as their approach to parking enforcement takes into account extenuating circumstances and also the hospital environment, but you do need to appeal within the required timescales and also quote the relevant parking charge notice (PCN) number and a contact address.

Kind regards

XXXXX XXXXXXXXX

Travel and Access Manager

Department of Estate Development

The Pennine Acute Hospitals NHS Trust

Please could you help with my next move? No reply direct from PALS yet.

Redx · 24 April 2017 at 10:35PM

I would write back and quote the link to the NHS guidelines and the fact they were issued over 2.5 years ago and their policy breaks those guidelines and you expect them to follow these guidelines brought in by Jeremy Hunt 2.5 years ago (the will of parliament)

tell them that the guidelines clearly show that they are responsible and also legally liable for the actions of their contractors and you expect them to deal with the situation and not to fob you off to the third party contractor who are only interested in extortion

ie:- make them squirm and show you mean business

complain to your local MP as well , quoting the same NHS guidelines and also quote the recent parliament debate about the DVLA involvement etc too

obviously you wait for PALS for the moment but do not miss the appeal window for CEL either (28 days from the postal pcn date)

Coupon-mad · 24 April 2017 at 11:55PM

Yes, push them to answer for the NHS Trusts's disregard for Government policy and rant at how angry you are to be passed off to a notorious ex-clamper firm who have a reputation for suing people when they finally get kicked off a site/lose a contract (e.g. the Co-op customers and staff were sued ruthlessly by this company when the Co-op learnt who they had signed up with).

CEL are not 'best placed'to be anywhere near the cars of patients or visitors at Hospitals (or staff) and you feel insulted by a reply from someone who has obviously researched this bunch with a similar lack of due diligence as the person who actually signed the contract.

How dare they disregard Government policy and allow an ex-clamper firm who harass and sue people, to have patient data!

Rant and rant. Insist PALS pass this up the line as a FORMAL complaint (call it that).

mje1980 · 25 April 2017 at 12:20PM

Thank you for the help above.

Draft reply below again. I will also copy in my MP (Ivan Lewis), maybe add in a bit about privatising of NHS. AGAIN, please give me as much advice as possible. It will be proof read before sending off too .

Although not surprising, that reply is offensive. To defend the decision to allow Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) anywhere near hospitals, patients, patients data, and NHS staff given the way they have historically treated previous contracts is nodding along with the kind of due diligence that would have Herod in charge of the maternity ward.

It is offensive that you think people should accept being fobbed off with a reply like that from the NHS, trying to avoid what is legally your responsibility. I have attached a link to the Government Parking Principles. It clearly shows you are responsible and legally liable for the actions of your contactors.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

I have absolutely no interest in dealing with CEL on this matter. It is obvious to me that they rely on victims simply and quickly passing on their own data and ultimately money out of fear. If you do not receive a stream of complaints on this issue, fear can be the only reason. People worried by the threats that this will escalate quickly if they complain and just delay the matter.

While leaving the car park when this PCN was issued, 2 more cars with PCN'S were noted, just in the same row. If that many are being issued (charges of £35 NOW or else!!) something is wrong with the parking system not the patients and visitors.

The parking issues could be easily solved. The NHS/Government getting in bed and using a company such as CEL does not solve any of the problems and makes you question the motives of such a decision in the first place.

I would like this to be confirmed as a formal complaint. I would like a swift reply from PALS, and the PCN cancelled before 2/5/17 when CEL have threatened to increase the costs.

mje1980 · 25 April 2017 at 10:56PM

I can see there are a few errors in this draft reply above... words missing, bad grammar etc!... but I will correct it and send off tomorrow.

If anyone can point out any content that really needs altering, that'd be great. Thanks.

Coupon-mad · 26 April 2017 at 12:37AM

I think your complaint is fine and we don't suggest a template for any complaint, it should be in your own angry words!

Show your MP the Government's Health Memorandum on NHS car parking practice which is easy to Google, and read it first to see why this regime does NOT comply.

And don't forget to diarise to appeal this to CEL anyway by email or online, as keeper (not driver) before you get past about 25 days, in case you miss the 28 days.

mje1980 · 28 April 2017 at 11:46AM

Hi everyone.

Had a reply from a complaints manager. I had insisted I wanted a conclusion/cancellation before the date CEL would increase the change to £70.

Response:-
Thank you including us in your email reply to Mr Barry Waterhouse, Travel and Access Manager. I am sorry that you are dissatisfied with the arrangements for car parking management at the Trust.

Your complaint has been registered and we aim to respond in 25 working days. However, it is important to make you aware that, as we will not be able to respond before 02 May 2017 (which is the date you advise that the parking notice charge will increase) the charge may indeed increase on that date. Making a formal complaint does not prevent the charge from increasing and may not result in action to cancel any fees. Therefore, I would again encourage you to engage with Civil Enforcement Ltd to resolve the matter.

I will bring your complaint to the attention of the relevant senior managers for investigation under the complaints process and we aim to respond by 1 June 2017. If you have any queries, please don’t hesitate to telephone me on the number below.

Do I need to now prepare to deal with CEL?

Seems unlikely this is getting cancelled by PALS/NHS, but please tell me the thoughts of you experts!

Thank you everyone.

Redx · 28 April 2017 at 12:07PM

yes, is the short answer, so if you have not appealed to CEL then do so using the blue text template and add an extra line to say that the pcn has been escalated to the complaints manager at the trust - do this by day 24 following the postal pcn date , so a few days before day 28

if you have appealed and been rejected, you should have a POPLA code so start drafting your popla appeal based on the examples in the NEWBIES sticky thread and do this by around day 24 again , thereby stringing it out in case the trust cancel it

both of the above have a 28 day "limit" so make sure either or both are submitted before the deadlines

Umkomaas · 28 April 2017 at 12:12PM

Unless you are hell-bent on paying CEL at the reduced rate, then why worry about it?

Good, I didn't think you'd be daft enough to be paying them anything.

Initial appeal from the sticky to CEL around day 25. Get your POPLA verification code. Show us your draft POPLA appeal. Send it off after approval here. Either CEL will 'fold' at that point, or POPLA will uphold your appeal.

Job done!

Hospital Civil Enforcement Ltd PCN

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free