Mooloo's Joining up the dots in 2017

Slinky · 2 February 2017 at 9:26PM

If you bail them out now, you'll just be doing the same again in another 6 months, something has to change, and that change has to be you stopping bailing them out again.

Cue another load of abuse from the GF no doubt, but they are grown adults, this cannot continue to be your problem until you drop.

Feral_Moon · 2 February 2017 at 9:47PM

This is where you need to take a step back and let them find the solution with the help from appropriate authorities. By all means signpost them in the direction of help but then leave them to it.

They are adults now. You have your life and they have theirs. Bail them out now and you will forever more. You will also risk damaging any future with BF which is already on a delicate knife edge.

You know what to do deep down Mooloo, you just need confirmation that's it ok to step back and not feel guilty. I'm sure with our collective support you will do the right thing xx

just_trying · 2 February 2017 at 9:47PM

Mooloo,

I know you want to help, that's just you. Just tell them the truth, unfortunately you're in debt and having financial difficulties at the moment. You don't have the funds to help.

Then just say, he needs to phone housing tomorrow and set up a payment plan, as you yourself have had to do. He\they need to deal with this now (tomorrow). Worst case senario, they'll end up in a hostel or b&b, if they don't accept the payment plan. You've done enough.

Stay strong, think about yourself and grand daughter. It wasn't that long ago he wouldn't speak to you.

Eager_Elephant · 2 February 2017 at 11:29PM

Just popped in before bed and noticed your post.

If they have been in their property a year and are no longer introductory tenants then the most the court will do for a first appearance for possession is give them a Suspended Possession Order on terms of rent + something to the arrears.
The trouble only comes if they fail to stick to that as they can then be evicted.

If they are still introductory tenants then it gets a bit more tricky but is not guaranteed to end in court or eviction.

Housing Associations should have their own Money Advisers or if not they will refer to a local one - it might be better if they see someone independent who can give advise of finances and budgeting.
They may even have their own Tenancy Support which they can access.

Bearing in mind the fact that DS does not earn much I would assume that most of his rent is covered by Housing Benefit - this might be the first port of call to check if they are getting any.
Given how lax they are with everything it would not surprise me if they have not opened post from benefits asking for information and then the claim would get cancelled.

I know it's hard but right now please do not bail them out - they will never learn to take responsibility for their actions if the bank of mum can rescue them.
I know you want to manage their money but that does not help in the long run - if they need to pay rent then they have to pay it. If it's easier can they set up a s/o to leave their bank account when Tax Credits hits as that at least is a guaranteed income each week/4 weekly?

Send me a text or WhatsApp if you need me tomorrow.

Savvy_Sue · 3 February 2017 at 12:56AM

Agree with EE and everyone else, but I'd add to what EE says that if they agree to a payment plan - either at court or beforehand - then they MUST keep to it. For that reason it's important not to over-offer, and given that they are demanding immediate repayment of the arrears I suspect that letters have been ignored, and only by going to court will they get a payment plan - might be wrong there.

And when I say they MUST keep to it, I really do mean that. The payment may be very low, and they may one week think "gosh, we could pay a bit more". Far better to put the extra aside, against the week when baby needs shoes / clothes / nappies and they think "where is the rent backpayment going to come from?" They might think that if they've overpaid one week they can underpay another: nope. The agreement is to pay £X per week or month, and that is what they must do.

Would not do any harm to start paying a small amount towards the arrears before it gets to court! But that must be THEIR decision, their choice, and not you bailing them out.

There are two very good debt advice charities and getting help from one or other of them would be very worthwhile. There's StepChange and CAP, and I know CAP will do home visits in some cases, which might be particularly helpful for DS and his g/f.

CAP also offer a money management course and if there's a local one they might find that helpful.

Dansmam · 3 February 2017 at 1:38AM

Hello, hope this is ok - I have kept up with bits of your journey and just lurked but have a suggestion - would it help to think about what they would do if you weren't here (don't want to be morbid and hopefully many years off but the odds are that one day you won't be - harsh but true). What can you do to make sure that when that (harsh but true day) comes along all your kids and grandkids will be fine, thriving and (except for missing you) happy people? You have shown them how you have learned to do it. I'd love to see you keep showing them but that depends on you not bailing them out. Again. From one whose debt all came from trying to make my kids lives good, to another who seems much the same x
(Took a while to realise mine were grown ups but now I realise that and I can say no - I can still treat them but it's treats not bailouts)
Maybe you can help best by not fixing things now. By giving them skills to fix for themselves. Wishing you all the luck in the world x

Savvy_Sue · 3 February 2017 at 2:09AM

Dansmam wrote: »

Maybe you can help best by not fixing things now. By giving them skills to fix for themselves.

You're absolutely right, but to be fair Mooloo's been trying to do that for all of them for as long as she's been sharing her story! there are all sorts of 'reasons' why they've not 'learned' yet and maybe, just maybe, her DS will now get the message, but the mess they are in now is not because Mooloo has tried to 'fix' rather than tried to pass her fixing skills on to them! She has tried to do both.

Savvy_sewing · 3 February 2017 at 8:14AM

Thanks people!
I have shown them all budgets, SOA's, taken them to see debt councillors and housing officials, all before, each and every one of them. But it seems to no avail. We set up a payment plan in September I think it was, yet DS has not been meeting the debts.
Funnily enough ge messaged me for a lift home last night, his usual lift had gone earlier. So for 35 minutes I had a captive audience.
I didn't shout, I talked calmly. I told him that I will take him to see the housing on Wednesday. Although I may actually see if I can leave staff in the shop and take him earlier, and I will help him to understand what their options are and try to stop the rot.
He said that occasionally he had paid less, as he basically had been robing Peter to pay Paul, and the "blame" he puts on Housing Benefits messing them about. He had produced papers etc and then more etc and then they were lost, and every thing goes wrong.
I said that why didn't he tell us before and someone would have taken him together with the paperwork and given it a check through to make sure that it was ok. I believe that he gets the working tax element of their claim, and she gets the child element of it. Tuesday and then they pay the rent and tax on the Tuesday, except by the look of it sometimes he pays less hoping for the difference the next time. As you say Sue, that generates threatening letters that he has ignored. He said he wanted to set up a DD but was told his rent was weekly he had to pay weekly. I told him that that was not true as I am with the same housing association and I paid my shortfall monthly DD, and that way if I have changes they automatically change the DD.
I said we will get that set up, but he needs to stick to the budget. I said that I would have rather helped with the odd tenner short one week than end up with this mess.
I asked why he didn't tell me and he said that he wanted to sort it out on his own.
He also told me that his GF is so dependent on him, he can't get out into the shed to start his blacksmith stuff because she is dependent on him, and screams for him to do everything, he has been the baby and her carer since the baby was born, he will be 2 in April. DS said he hasn't had a lay in after 6am since baby was born and he doesn't get to bed before 2am because she is demanding and and insists he stays up with her, even though she won't get up in the morning. He seems to be at the end of his tether. He was in tears.
I have said that as his hfs family doesn't help then she is going to have to accept that at the moment the only help is Biggest and me. That we are going to have to come into the house and help them to access the system. I said that if only they could ask the doctors for the right help for her, child care help, debt advice etc, but I was, before Biggest went charging in, unable to ask for help for fear of loosing the child.
I have told him that I have incurred my debt through bailing out all 4 of them and that I have to be debt free by summer 2019, before I can potentially move to bf's, but as someone said that is on a knife edge.
I will try and steer him to the right help.
I am just exasperated with them all.
Biggest has gone in during the day and conviscated his Xbox! I am not sure how that will help and not sure that she has just taken his only escape from him, that makes any of his life bareable.
I am not sure that the relationship is ever going to be very good and neither is happy and I said that they have to address this as it is not good for the boy to be in that kind of atmosphere where he sees his mother screaming at his father all the time, and his father letting her to "keep the peace " when in reality there is no peace.
I think I will have a chat with Biggest today and see what type of support plan we can put together to move them forward to access the system that should have been around some one so vulnerable as his GF, the baby and see how DS can work etc.
I can see now why he only works parttime, because she depends on him to care for her and the child. He is exhausted and beaten at the moment and is living in his own private hell.
I am not able to wave a magic wand to sort that lot out but I am sure that some help must be forthcoming somewhere

Eager_Elephant · 3 February 2017 at 8:34AM

It sounds like a domestic violence relationship - I wonder what kind of family she grew up in and whether this is the norm for her? It does not excuse it of course but does answer the question of why she is like it.

Personally I am worried for DS' mental health, lack of sleep is awful, never mind the constant abuse.

I, too agree that Biggest has done wrong by confiscating his Xbox - he is an adult and can make his own decisions and adults do not get things confiscated from them - he is 20+ years old not 5 yrs old.
Anyway how does taking the xbox away help him pay his rent??

I am not sure a monthly DD is suitable if he has no money that actually comes in monthly - I can't see him keeping money back for it which is why I suggested a standing order which he could do on a Tuesday from his working tax credit.

I assume DS is classed as self-employed - you know the problems this can cause with HB and of course they probably wanted his accounts and he maybe provided a list of payments and they don't want to have to sort through it.

I am so pleased that DS was able to open up to you even if he was captive!!

I wish I was closer so I could come and help him (and you).

((Mooloo and family))

Savvy_sewing · 3 February 2017 at 10:45AM

Just had a conversation with Biggest and she has explained that yesterday when we asked the GF to gather up any paperwork etc it showed that DS had spent around £200 on gaming on the Xbox when he has been trying to switch off from his problems he has actually been exasperateing them by the Xbox costs, and that is why she has taken it away.
I have suggested that we both go and see the pair of them together and we get to the bottom (again), of the issue and see what can be done to help physically rather than financially and see if we can (once again), set the basics back up, with a Callander with the budget etc and payment dates etc written up. That we come up with some sort of plan to get them motivated and to the right help for them that we can see about getting.
Debt management
home Start ( if possible)
Council king if we can access it for him now not just her. That some one visits every day to start with to try and change the chaotic pattern even if it is for an hour a day to get one walking to the park and the other clearing up, getting them to also try to be more of a team, see what they are willing to try, and see if with support they can start to understand the problem they have created by ignorance and denial.
I wonder if they should even be together myself but that's not for me to decide. My job as Mum is to listen, show them what I can( again) and support them emotionally better from now on.
I have realised that leaving them to their own devices is just not going to be the answer. I don't know how we will do it but Biggest is going to see what time she gets back from Birmingham and we will see if we can fit in a visit today while the GF is amenable to our help.
Her family is more dysfunctional than mine by the sounds of it, and although her parents are not together her Mum has a fairly well off partner, ( they have a huge house and horses), they only criticise and blame my Son and do not offer any consistent help at all. They do see them, they did originally help decorate the baby's room and I think the GF and my son have stayed with them occasionally. But the mother is pretty unstable herself and one minute says she will support and the next withdraws it.
DS told me last night that he is frustrated with the situation too.

Currently I feel the pair of them are at rock bottom and have no idea how to get out of it.

Mooloo's Joining up the dots in 2017

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